having done extensive on the ground work, irl anarchists are nothing like internet anarchists in my experience
the worst you will get as an ML is a snide comment or a weird look, which if that bothers you, you are not suited to organizing
and frankly "supporting" china has no material impact whatsoever, and implies a very "posting is praxis" western marxist worldview
Supporting China in the form of creating anti-cold war coalitions can have a material impact. It can at least delay and disrupt the imperial machine while they figure out how to pass laws so that calling a Congressperson a loser now earns someone prison time, etc.
Also a great way to expose people to the police reaction that will occur when you organize anything in this vein of any importance. Gotta keep innoculating more and more people so that we don't get easily murdered when cool zones hit.
The imperial war machine is constantly lobbying for its interests and against sentiments that may disrupt its aims. It is virtually always successful on the national stage, but local organizing can and has massively disrupted supply chains and manufacturing centers. This is why a lot of environmentalism actions are now criminal, even treated as terrorism: they did and do actually force a response, and that sucks away resources from the top in a lose-lose material exchange but with the benefit of innoculating the public from the notion that things are going well, that those companies are on their side, etc. It also teaches your org members that there is no bottom to the depravity to which capital will respond to disruption. Gotta plan accordingly to ensure actions have informed consent, of course - and a clear-eyed goal.
Anyways, the war machine lobbies because they do actually perceive a need to "grease the wheels" to get things going. They don't throw money at think tanks and Senators and PR campaigns for nothing. And that can be undermined with several aforementioned benefits.
And no, I agree, most Americans are confused and easily led into fashy thinking and frothing for genocide. The actions I'm talking about don't have naive goals like, "we will convince everyone to oppose US imperialism on principle". Innoculation can be as simple as being tear gas seeping in your window while the cops beat protesters. The liberal inside may not join the protesters (yet), but they do see the lopsided reaction and a few gears start to turn.
These are the kinds of things we use to peel away libs person by person to build power. Especially younger people.
my point is that it doesn't matter at all
we are barely past the starting gun of communism
the generations before us (in the west) got complacent and dropped the fucking ball
at this moment, having anarchists as allies can only benefit the working class, they have better support networks, making a real difference to people's lives on the ground
we can deal with our differences when we aren't completely outnumbered and outgunned by the overt fascists who are trying to kill us, and the movement dead
and make no mistake, i will probably be in my sixties by the time that fucking happens, and you in your forties
it's 4am for me dipshit, you expect me to be organizing when everyone is asleep?
holy shit you fuckers are a complete joke
make a play at me being a furry next, that'll play well with the reactionaries you're deperate to tailism into joining our side
i'm literally trans you fucking shitbag
or do you not recognise the flag in my god damn avatar
i'm also poor as shit, but you don't care about that do you?
it's all fucking national essentialism to your kind
I dunno I think dismissively quoting 19th century political philosophical divisions in response to someone pointing to the importance of real-world on the ground mass organizing is firmly in the realm of idealism.
The science of revolution requires a grounding in the conditions of the working class and an aptitude for organizing a mass base. Many anarchists are far ahead of many Western MLs in this respect, as being a Western ML is unfortunately often treated more like an identity or club rather than an activity or life dedication or science.
Whether they're all-in on China or think that Xi is the anti-Christ, the end result is exactly the same: absolutely nothing whatsoever. There isn't a local left, much less a national left; certainly there isn't anything that anybody could seriously call an international movement. The opinions of random westerners mean absolutely nothing to the CCP. Fixating on what we have zero influence over is wholly unproductive.
Maybe in 20 years we'll have cobbled together a movement that Beijing thinks is even worth offering a nod to, but right now we're a bit too irrelevant to worry about our place on the global stage.
having done extensive on the ground work, irl anarchists are nothing like internet anarchists in my experience
the worst you will get as an ML is a snide comment or a weird look, which if that bothers you, you are not suited to organizing
and frankly "supporting" china has no material impact whatsoever, and implies a very "posting is praxis" western marxist worldview
Supporting China in the form of creating anti-cold war coalitions can have a material impact. It can at least delay and disrupt the imperial machine while they figure out how to pass laws so that calling a Congressperson a loser now earns someone prison time, etc.
Also a great way to expose people to the police reaction that will occur when you organize anything in this vein of any importance. Gotta keep innoculating more and more people so that we don't get easily murdered when cool zones hit.
are you fucking high?
since when has the us imperial war machine gave the tiniest shit about what the people think?
and even if they did, the average american sees everyone outside of america as subhuman and worthy of scorn, you think they would oppose a war?
The imperial war machine is constantly lobbying for its interests and against sentiments that may disrupt its aims. It is virtually always successful on the national stage, but local organizing can and has massively disrupted supply chains and manufacturing centers. This is why a lot of environmentalism actions are now criminal, even treated as terrorism: they did and do actually force a response, and that sucks away resources from the top in a lose-lose material exchange but with the benefit of innoculating the public from the notion that things are going well, that those companies are on their side, etc. It also teaches your org members that there is no bottom to the depravity to which capital will respond to disruption. Gotta plan accordingly to ensure actions have informed consent, of course - and a clear-eyed goal.
Anyways, the war machine lobbies because they do actually perceive a need to "grease the wheels" to get things going. They don't throw money at think tanks and Senators and PR campaigns for nothing. And that can be undermined with several aforementioned benefits.
And no, I agree, most Americans are confused and easily led into fashy thinking and frothing for genocide. The actions I'm talking about don't have naive goals like, "we will convince everyone to oppose US imperialism on principle". Innoculation can be as simple as being tear gas seeping in your window while the cops beat protesters. The liberal inside may not join the protesters (yet), but they do see the lopsided reaction and a few gears start to turn.
These are the kinds of things we use to peel away libs person by person to build power. Especially younger people.
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my point is that it doesn't matter at all
we are barely past the starting gun of communism
the generations before us (in the west) got complacent and dropped the fucking ball
at this moment, having anarchists as allies can only benefit the working class, they have better support networks, making a real difference to people's lives on the ground
we can deal with our differences when we aren't completely outnumbered and outgunned by the overt fascists who are trying to kill us, and the movement dead
and make no mistake, i will probably be in my sixties by the time that fucking happens, and you in your forties
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i'm 32 years old and if you're older than me and hold to this ridiculous fucking idea then you are useless to us
we are running out of fucking time
this isn't a fucking game, this is people's fucking lives
you know what, fuck it, i'm done being nice to you larpers
GO THE FUCK OUTSIDE AND DO SOMETHING WITH YOUR FUCKING LIFE YOU WORTHLESS FUCKING PRICK
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shut the fuck up larper, you live in a suburb in wisconsin, no one fucking cares
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you really suck at this don't you larper
go the fuck outside and do something with your life
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it's 4am for me dipshit, you expect me to be organizing when everyone is asleep?
holy shit you fuckers are a complete joke
make a play at me being a furry next, that'll play well with the reactionaries you're deperate to tailism into joining our side
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you're a yankoid aren't you? make do motherfucker
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i'm literally trans you fucking shitbag
or do you not recognise the flag in my god damn avatar
i'm also poor as shit, but you don't care about that do you?
it's all fucking national essentialism to your kind
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shut the fuck up
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you are a yankoid child that will inevitably cease to be a communist when your daddy gets you a job at lockheed-martin
i do not give the tiniest shit about what you think about anything
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yes, because that's all you deserve
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this ain't hexbear motherfucker, i can continue bullying you as much as i want
until your mods take pity on you i guess
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i don't give a sit about being banned from the larper instance lmao
what, like 5% of you at most are in an org of any kind?
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yeah, but i do work
you donate your parent's money
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i'm done with some yankee child
go join an org and do something with your life, i'm going to go sleep
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lmao, too real for you settler?
I dunno I think dismissively quoting 19th century political philosophical divisions in response to someone pointing to the importance of real-world on the ground mass organizing is firmly in the realm of idealism.
The science of revolution requires a grounding in the conditions of the working class and an aptitude for organizing a mass base. Many anarchists are far ahead of many Western MLs in this respect, as being a Western ML is unfortunately often treated more like an identity or club rather than an activity or life dedication or science.
Whether they're all-in on China or think that Xi is the anti-Christ, the end result is exactly the same: absolutely nothing whatsoever. There isn't a local left, much less a national left; certainly there isn't anything that anybody could seriously call an international movement. The opinions of random westerners mean absolutely nothing to the CCP. Fixating on what we have zero influence over is wholly unproductive.
Maybe in 20 years we'll have cobbled together a movement that Beijing thinks is even worth offering a nod to, but right now we're a bit too irrelevant to worry about our place on the global stage.