All great points. And remember the US all but put gay people in camps in the 80’s as AIDS ravaged them and Regan (may Satan torture his soul forever) just sat there and smiled as it happened.
Still, how should we describe a potential turn into those few things Nazi Germany had that the US has lacked? Like, I say I fear a fascist takeover of the US but really, that’s what I mean by saying that.
Why would the US create death camps? Because of risk of revolt. So that means if the lumpen start getting organized, the risk of death camps becomes real.
Invasion of neighbors is unlikely because strategically it creates way larger borders and the conditions for international intervention.
Invasion of further countries is possible, for a number of reasons, but that will just create proxy wars, which... we're already there.
So what other than industrializing death are you concerned about? If that's the only thing, then you should see that we're already fascist, we're already taken over, we're already in that place, we just don't have the rebellion that requires that tactic to be implemented.
Even without death camps we have a wide variety of concentration camps here in the US, many which have or had conditions bad enough to cause death at a higher rate. Whether it's the indigenous genocide and reservation system, the prison system which is the biggest forced labor camp system in the world, mostly for Black and poor people, the immigrant detention centers that separated children of legal asylum seekers from their parents, or the Japanese internment camps in WWII, the US really is a world leader in fascism.
The republicans very much are beating the war drum against mexico rn, remains to be seen if the MIC wants that or war against China imo.
I just answered my own question trying to type this comment out to explain what I’m afraid of for the US lol. I’m afraid of fanatics, whether it be like the neo-Nazis with white supremacy or Evangelicals with Christianity (I’m aware there’s a ton of overlap, and it’s likely it would just be both in America), they would open death camps not for “fear of revolt” (That’s what violent purges are for, which the US already does to communists already tbh) but because they are fanatics for their ideology.
Edit: I should add, I fear them taking receiving the reins of power as our living conditions decline here as dedollarization accelerates in the future.
I think my point is that they have the power. Do you think well-adjusted, compassionate, peaceful people are occupying Hawaii, Guam, the Caribbean, the Pacific, and South Korea. Do you think Victorian Nuland was handing out cookies during Euromaidan because she believed it was all for peace? Do you think it's healthy libs overseeing the largest prison population per capitalist with $11Bn in slave labor profits?
The violence domestically is already here. The mass shootings are insane and the politicians are all in support of them. White people get called "mentally unstable" and everyone else is a terrorist participating in a conspiracy against the perfectly normal USA.
All the people you're worried about are already in the power structure. The crazies will only be elevated when the domestic threat requires it. But it's all prepared. The Florida militia is a great example. We're there, comrade. We're already there. We can trigger the death camps just by organizing the lumpen left effectively. As soon as we do that, we'll see the reaction from the power structure. It's already what you fear it is.
Yes takeover was a poor choice of words, I should say I fear the handover. Didnt mean to come across as trying to do the “this is the most important election of our life” type thing like we could prevent them from holding power with that.
Could you expand on what you mean by the lumpen left? Or just like an article about it? I know that was a thing the BPs pushed for (like organizing gang members right?) but I’ve hardly read anything about them aside from quick rundowns and a few of their speeches.
I'm reading bout BPs mostly, and contrasting it against contemporary analysis of the labor aristocracy. With the massive prison population, homeless population, those with addiction diseases, and the underemployed, the lumpen is getting larger and larger compared to the days of the BP when it was mostly blacks in ghettos (still here) and the American Indians (still here). So if we manage to get them organized, likely by building from the AIM and Black Power movements, it is simultaneously the most likely formation and the formation most likely to trigger the most violent reaction.
How to organize the lumpen? Not that I am aware of. However, the PSL is pretty well based on theory and historical analysis and Lenin was pretty clear on the need for the legitimate party and the less legitimate guerilla movement working together towards the same goals. So I imagine that without coming out and saying it the PSL is aware of the need for a lumpen movement and is probably doing what they can to agitate, educate, and support.
All great points. And remember the US all but put gay people in camps in the 80’s as AIDS ravaged them and Regan (may Satan torture his soul forever) just sat there and smiled as it happened.
Still, how should we describe a potential turn into those few things Nazi Germany had that the US has lacked? Like, I say I fear a fascist takeover of the US but really, that’s what I mean by saying that.
You gotta get specific about what could happen:
Why would the US create death camps? Because of risk of revolt. So that means if the lumpen start getting organized, the risk of death camps becomes real.
Invasion of neighbors is unlikely because strategically it creates way larger borders and the conditions for international intervention.
Invasion of further countries is possible, for a number of reasons, but that will just create proxy wars, which... we're already there.
So what other than industrializing death are you concerned about? If that's the only thing, then you should see that we're already fascist, we're already taken over, we're already in that place, we just don't have the rebellion that requires that tactic to be implemented.
Even without death camps we have a wide variety of concentration camps here in the US, many which have or had conditions bad enough to cause death at a higher rate. Whether it's the indigenous genocide and reservation system, the prison system which is the biggest forced labor camp system in the world, mostly for Black and poor people, the immigrant detention centers that separated children of legal asylum seekers from their parents, or the Japanese internment camps in WWII, the US really is a world leader in fascism.
Yup
Don’t forget about black sites both inside and outside the US that we kidnap people to and torture them to death
The republicans very much are beating the war drum against mexico rn, remains to be seen if the MIC wants that or war against China imo.
I just answered my own question trying to type this comment out to explain what I’m afraid of for the US lol. I’m afraid of fanatics, whether it be like the neo-Nazis with white supremacy or Evangelicals with Christianity (I’m aware there’s a ton of overlap, and it’s likely it would just be both in America), they would open death camps not for “fear of revolt” (That’s what violent purges are for, which the US already does to communists already tbh) but because they are fanatics for their ideology.
Edit: I should add, I fear them
takingreceiving the reins of power as our living conditions decline here as dedollarization accelerates in the future.I think my point is that they have the power. Do you think well-adjusted, compassionate, peaceful people are occupying Hawaii, Guam, the Caribbean, the Pacific, and South Korea. Do you think Victorian Nuland was handing out cookies during Euromaidan because she believed it was all for peace? Do you think it's healthy libs overseeing the largest prison population per capitalist with $11Bn in slave labor profits?
The violence domestically is already here. The mass shootings are insane and the politicians are all in support of them. White people get called "mentally unstable" and everyone else is a terrorist participating in a conspiracy against the perfectly normal USA.
All the people you're worried about are already in the power structure. The crazies will only be elevated when the domestic threat requires it. But it's all prepared. The Florida militia is a great example. We're there, comrade. We're already there. We can trigger the death camps just by organizing the lumpen left effectively. As soon as we do that, we'll see the reaction from the power structure. It's already what you fear it is.
Yes takeover was a poor choice of words, I should say I fear the handover. Didnt mean to come across as trying to do the “this is the most important election of our life” type thing like we could prevent them from holding power with that.
Could you expand on what you mean by the lumpen left? Or just like an article about it? I know that was a thing the BPs pushed for (like organizing gang members right?) but I’ve hardly read anything about them aside from quick rundowns and a few of their speeches.
I'm reading bout BPs mostly, and contrasting it against contemporary analysis of the labor aristocracy. With the massive prison population, homeless population, those with addiction diseases, and the underemployed, the lumpen is getting larger and larger compared to the days of the BP when it was mostly blacks in ghettos (still here) and the American Indians (still here). So if we manage to get them organized, likely by building from the AIM and Black Power movements, it is simultaneously the most likely formation and the formation most likely to trigger the most violent reaction.
Do you know if any of our mainline parties have started thinking about how to do this?
How to organize the lumpen? Not that I am aware of. However, the PSL is pretty well based on theory and historical analysis and Lenin was pretty clear on the need for the legitimate party and the less legitimate guerilla movement working together towards the same goals. So I imagine that without coming out and saying it the PSL is aware of the need for a lumpen movement and is probably doing what they can to agitate, educate, and support.