Here is the english version of my now famous “Fallait demander” ; now available as a book with other stories : Orders available here or here or here ^_^ Thanks Una from unadtranslation.…
Me: Disingenuously picks out a part that's bougie then uses it to disregard the entire point that women, especially disadvantaged women are expected to work 40 hours a week at her job in the business factory (which incurs no mental load whatsoever btw). Then be in charge of the majority of the child rearing and household tasks on top of it.
Yeah sorry I was definitely being a bit facetious when I wrote that and I did miss that the part that the women in this are working too. Also didn't realise what sub I was commenting in.
Been thinking about this the last day and it's definitely given me food for thought, I know I've done the 'just ask me' thing in the past.
One theory I do have though about domestic disagreements from household chores is that different people have different 'cleanliness thresholds', like the trigger point that makes you look at a room and go 'I need to vacuum' or whatever, and for some people its higher or lower than others. I dont think it's a gender issue either, my mum was a single mum and she doesnt clean a ton (not that we lived in squalor) and my wife's parents are both super neat (probably the dad more) so she will often consider a room 'filthy' when to me it's basically fine. Also a friend of mine has recently split up with her partner but when they were together he would be the one hassling her to clean up, do the dishes etc. The comic was about couplea with kids though which we dont have (yet!) so yeah things may be a bit different then.
I do take slight issue with the idea that men are too dumb/lazy/whatever to pick up the towel or put the vegetables in the fridge, also the guy at the start is just an asshole, gender notwithstanding. Though I get I'm basically doing a Not All Men here.
Also 100% this should be discussed with your partner and not pushed through just doing everything. If it's more stressful to discuss with your partner than it is to just carry on doing it all that doesnt seem like a healthy relationship (though I guess that's the point of the comic).
To an extent I would agree that it's not a gendered issue at its core, however I would say due to expectations placed on the genders, women on average are more likely a lower trigger point, and men are more likely to have a higher one. Furthermore girls on average tend to be more involved in household chores growing up. There are definitely situations where the men have higher standards of cleanliness.
Though in my experiences from my friends, roommates, my life and what I've read I'd say it more commonly falls on the women to manage the household. In some situations this of course makes economic sense or they've made a joint decision and that is fairly common. However I feel like this mainstay from the 50s has carried over to modern times, and often women are now expected to work and be in charge of the household. Sometimes when my friends are working and their boyfriend or husband isn't for whatever reason, the man doesn't actually pick up more of the household tasks.
Also oftentimes, when the man is hassling the women to clean, he isn't necessarily cleaning himself and just telling her what she should be doing. Of course, this isn't always the case. I also don't think it's an individual man's fault or that it makes you a "bad" person. These skills have to be learned, women tend to be taught them - men tend to have to figure them out on their own. How many male friends who live alone or with male roommates do you know whose house is kinda gross?
Though I think this problem tends to lessen as we get older. Men aren't inherently "stupid" or worse at cleaning and they learn from living on their own, getting along with roommates and partners. Their parents just often don't teach them as much about cleaning or cooking. Personally growing up I took Home Ec (which was, surprise all girls even though anyone could take it) and was involved in quite a bit of cooking and cleaning.
I would say don't take it personally and even I've had to consider and struggle with how can I be more compassionate to my wife and make her life easier. I wouldn't say to take is as gospel or this is literally all men, it's just meant to help you reflect and maybe have some discussions in your relationships. What are you expecting? What are they expecting? Perhaps you're doing more than your partner realized in other areas, perhaps they're struggling in certain areas and need extra help.
Just don't become one of the crazy people on reddit who are taking videos and photos of them cleaning to prove how wrong their partners are and invalidate them and you're probably doing OK. If your partner feels like you're not doing enough or you feel that way, discuss it and discuss why - mayb you are and they just feel overwhelmed and didn't notice. Ultimately it really shouldn't be a battle or a fight, which I feel like it often becomes when people have mismatched standards or expectations.
It doesn't have to be about gender at all. I've had this conflict with roommates as well, of either gender. I'll also grant you the source material here isn't perfect but it does provide, in my opinion a good jumping off point for discussions.
Yeah pretty much agree with all this, I think the standard upbringings people have definitely do instill these roles, though as you said over time they may get worn away. I'm 34 now which is why I perhaps perceive it as being more or less equal but if I think back to my early 20s I dont think that was the case.
This definitely has given me some food for thought and I think if I'm being completely honest with myself I think my initial comment was borne at least partly out of defensiveness.
Me: Disingenuously picks out a part that's bougie then uses it to disregard the entire point that women, especially disadvantaged women are expected to work 40 hours a week at her job in the business factory (which incurs no mental load whatsoever btw). Then be in charge of the majority of the child rearing and household tasks on top of it.
Also me: I am very intelligent.
Yeah sorry I was definitely being a bit facetious when I wrote that and I did miss that the part that the women in this are working too. Also didn't realise what sub I was commenting in.
Been thinking about this the last day and it's definitely given me food for thought, I know I've done the 'just ask me' thing in the past.
One theory I do have though about domestic disagreements from household chores is that different people have different 'cleanliness thresholds', like the trigger point that makes you look at a room and go 'I need to vacuum' or whatever, and for some people its higher or lower than others. I dont think it's a gender issue either, my mum was a single mum and she doesnt clean a ton (not that we lived in squalor) and my wife's parents are both super neat (probably the dad more) so she will often consider a room 'filthy' when to me it's basically fine. Also a friend of mine has recently split up with her partner but when they were together he would be the one hassling her to clean up, do the dishes etc. The comic was about couplea with kids though which we dont have (yet!) so yeah things may be a bit different then.
I do take slight issue with the idea that men are too dumb/lazy/whatever to pick up the towel or put the vegetables in the fridge, also the guy at the start is just an asshole, gender notwithstanding. Though I get I'm basically doing a Not All Men here.
Also 100% this should be discussed with your partner and not pushed through just doing everything. If it's more stressful to discuss with your partner than it is to just carry on doing it all that doesnt seem like a healthy relationship (though I guess that's the point of the comic).
To an extent I would agree that it's not a gendered issue at its core, however I would say due to expectations placed on the genders, women on average are more likely a lower trigger point, and men are more likely to have a higher one. Furthermore girls on average tend to be more involved in household chores growing up. There are definitely situations where the men have higher standards of cleanliness.
Though in my experiences from my friends, roommates, my life and what I've read I'd say it more commonly falls on the women to manage the household. In some situations this of course makes economic sense or they've made a joint decision and that is fairly common. However I feel like this mainstay from the 50s has carried over to modern times, and often women are now expected to work and be in charge of the household. Sometimes when my friends are working and their boyfriend or husband isn't for whatever reason, the man doesn't actually pick up more of the household tasks.
Also oftentimes, when the man is hassling the women to clean, he isn't necessarily cleaning himself and just telling her what she should be doing. Of course, this isn't always the case. I also don't think it's an individual man's fault or that it makes you a "bad" person. These skills have to be learned, women tend to be taught them - men tend to have to figure them out on their own. How many male friends who live alone or with male roommates do you know whose house is kinda gross?
Though I think this problem tends to lessen as we get older. Men aren't inherently "stupid" or worse at cleaning and they learn from living on their own, getting along with roommates and partners. Their parents just often don't teach them as much about cleaning or cooking. Personally growing up I took Home Ec (which was, surprise all girls even though anyone could take it) and was involved in quite a bit of cooking and cleaning.
I would say don't take it personally and even I've had to consider and struggle with how can I be more compassionate to my wife and make her life easier. I wouldn't say to take is as gospel or this is literally all men, it's just meant to help you reflect and maybe have some discussions in your relationships. What are you expecting? What are they expecting? Perhaps you're doing more than your partner realized in other areas, perhaps they're struggling in certain areas and need extra help.
Just don't become one of the crazy people on reddit who are taking videos and photos of them cleaning to prove how wrong their partners are and invalidate them and you're probably doing OK. If your partner feels like you're not doing enough or you feel that way, discuss it and discuss why - mayb you are and they just feel overwhelmed and didn't notice. Ultimately it really shouldn't be a battle or a fight, which I feel like it often becomes when people have mismatched standards or expectations.
It doesn't have to be about gender at all. I've had this conflict with roommates as well, of either gender. I'll also grant you the source material here isn't perfect but it does provide, in my opinion a good jumping off point for discussions.
Yeah pretty much agree with all this, I think the standard upbringings people have definitely do instill these roles, though as you said over time they may get worn away. I'm 34 now which is why I perhaps perceive it as being more or less equal but if I think back to my early 20s I dont think that was the case.
This definitely has given me some food for thought and I think if I'm being completely honest with myself I think my initial comment was borne at least partly out of defensiveness.