No I'm saying nations under genocidal conditions are going to have kids because they want their society to continue, it's nothing about soldiers and I really don't like that you would reduce the will to survive genocide as "creating soldiers". Should Palestinians give up children not knowing if they'll be bombed tomorrow? Do you shame, pity them for having more kids? Why should they let Israel succeed in killing the idea of Palestinians?
Reproductive labor is necessary labor for society to function. People having less kids because they can focus resources towards fewer children, those conditions only exist for the Imperialist and bourgeois strata. For most of the world having many kids is necessary for the survival of the community.
I'm saying nations under genocidal conditions are going to have kids because they want their society to continue, i
and those kids grow up where, under what conditions? My childhood wasn't nearly as shitty as what palestinians are made to endure and decades on I would still have rather been an abortion. it is out of compassion for their suffering that i suggest having kids in dire circumstances is immoral because of what you're knowingly forcing someone to live through.
Do you shame, pity them for having more kids?
i feel bad for the people who have to live that life. i feel bad for parents who didn't have the right to choose. i endorse the destruction of the oppressor state and the (trial if you have enough stability to have them) execution of the perpetrators of apartheid and genocide.
Why should they let Israel succeed in killing the idea of Palestinians?
why is the idea of some cultural group worth the suffering of my children? Oppressed people have a morally righteous fight against our oppressors, but condemning another person to live under that oppression is not righteous.
people are people and if i can choose not to condemn someone to a life of suffering why should I value a group identity over my child's quality of life? I wouldn't subject a child to life here and we even have running water.
no hedonistic pleasures or satisfaction from achievement could make my torture worthwhile, how the fuck is it OK to subject someone to far worse than what i've had?
This is clearly the words of someone who has no community or culture to cling to, one born nation-less and with a position to lose. For me contributing to my community in what's necessary of me benefits everyone and all children. For colonized peoples there is a collective worth protecting as it protects ourselves as individuals.
It's honestly sounding like you have internalized individualism. Like I said it's fine to not want children and to not have them, but know that people having children is necessary for your survival, and you have a role to play in the survival of their children.
Everyone has a role to play as we are social beings. Our society as structured alienates us from the benefits of socialized production but these conditions are definite and mutable. Have some revolutionary optimism.
I've written in my comments that my people are colonized and subject to genocide, I'm not a white settler, I'm Black. I understand the outlook that settlers have a false nation unworthy of upholding, I agree, but I do not think they need to be stripped of living their lives as human beings in the manner they choose as long as it fits the framework of Decolonization.
I comment on my predictions and expectations of settlers a lot, this time I'm on the optimistic side that we'd hope for more settlers to be deeply concerned about the future generations. It's fucked up for settlers to come here, trash the place, and when it comes time to clean up they'd rather die out than join the multi generational effort to fix this place. We don't plan for their help but it would be a quicker process with more hands. 🤷🏽♀️
Decolonization also means restoring the humanity of the colonizers.
It's honestly sounding like you have internalized individualism. Like I said it's fine to not want children and to not have them, but know that people having children is necessary for your survival, and you have a role to play in the survival of their children.
if other people putting children in harm's way is necessary for my survival then i would prefer not to survive and for the cycle of suffering to end with me. there's no social unit worth damning generations of children to lifetimes of suffering and bitter struggle.
Have some revolutionary optimism.
fight now and maybe having a kid later won't be equivalent to putting them through hell, but in the meantime we have no moral standing for conscription.
i think that oppressed people should fight back against their oppression but we do not have the right to bring children into dire circumstances and conscript them into a fight they did not and could not consent to.
If a monster is beating down your door and you can't defeat it on your own you shouldn't push a kid into its jaws. The monster should stop, but it won't. The other villages should come make the monster stop but they won't. Feeding more children to the monster is not in line with any of our other morals.
I’m not defending conscription of children. I’m defending colonized people’s right to continue having children as both an act of resistance and a way to further your own culture rather than giving up to the genociders. Your argument implies Palestinians and First Nations people are morally wrong for having children as they are actively genocided.
No I'm saying nations under genocidal conditions are going to have kids because they want their society to continue, it's nothing about soldiers and I really don't like that you would reduce the will to survive genocide as "creating soldiers". Should Palestinians give up children not knowing if they'll be bombed tomorrow? Do you shame, pity them for having more kids? Why should they let Israel succeed in killing the idea of Palestinians?
Reproductive labor is necessary labor for society to function. People having less kids because they can focus resources towards fewer children, those conditions only exist for the Imperialist and bourgeois strata. For most of the world having many kids is necessary for the survival of the community.
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and those kids grow up where, under what conditions? My childhood wasn't nearly as shitty as what palestinians are made to endure and decades on I would still have rather been an abortion. it is out of compassion for their suffering that i suggest having kids in dire circumstances is immoral because of what you're knowingly forcing someone to live through.
i feel bad for the people who have to live that life. i feel bad for parents who didn't have the right to choose. i endorse the destruction of the oppressor state and the (trial if you have enough stability to have them) execution of the perpetrators of apartheid and genocide.
why is the idea of some cultural group worth the suffering of my children? Oppressed people have a morally righteous fight against our oppressors, but condemning another person to live under that oppression is not righteous.
people are people and if i can choose not to condemn someone to a life of suffering why should I value a group identity over my child's quality of life? I wouldn't subject a child to life here and we even have running water.
no hedonistic pleasures or satisfaction from achievement could make my torture worthwhile, how the fuck is it OK to subject someone to far worse than what i've had?
This is clearly the words of someone who has no community or culture to cling to, one born nation-less and with a position to lose. For me contributing to my community in what's necessary of me benefits everyone and all children. For colonized peoples there is a collective worth protecting as it protects ourselves as individuals.
It's honestly sounding like you have internalized individualism. Like I said it's fine to not want children and to not have them, but know that people having children is necessary for your survival, and you have a role to play in the survival of their children.
Everyone has a role to play as we are social beings. Our society as structured alienates us from the benefits of socialized production but these conditions are definite and mutable. Have some revolutionary optimism.
deleted by creator
I've written in my comments that my people are colonized and subject to genocide, I'm not a white settler, I'm Black. I understand the outlook that settlers have a false nation unworthy of upholding, I agree, but I do not think they need to be stripped of living their lives as human beings in the manner they choose as long as it fits the framework of Decolonization.
I comment on my predictions and expectations of settlers a lot, this time I'm on the optimistic side that we'd hope for more settlers to be deeply concerned about the future generations. It's fucked up for settlers to come here, trash the place, and when it comes time to clean up they'd rather die out than join the multi generational effort to fix this place. We don't plan for their help but it would be a quicker process with more hands. 🤷🏽♀️
Decolonization also means restoring the humanity of the colonizers.
Albeit not peacefully 😏
deleted by creator
if other people putting children in harm's way is necessary for my survival then i would prefer not to survive and for the cycle of suffering to end with me. there's no social unit worth damning generations of children to lifetimes of suffering and bitter struggle.
fight now and maybe having a kid later won't be equivalent to putting them through hell, but in the meantime we have no moral standing for conscription.
“Just give up to genocide already, it will hurt less in the long term.”
refusing to conscript children isn't "giving up".
So you just think colonized colonized people should just collectively choose to end their own cultures and stop existing?
i think that oppressed people should fight back against their oppression but we do not have the right to bring children into dire circumstances and conscript them into a fight they did not and could not consent to.
If a monster is beating down your door and you can't defeat it on your own you shouldn't push a kid into its jaws. The monster should stop, but it won't. The other villages should come make the monster stop but they won't. Feeding more children to the monster is not in line with any of our other morals.
So if a genocide can’t be stopped in a generation give up?
why are you so set on defending the conscription of children?
I’m not defending conscription of children. I’m defending colonized people’s right to continue having children as both an act of resistance and a way to further your own culture rather than giving up to the genociders. Your argument implies Palestinians and First Nations people are morally wrong for having children as they are actively genocided.