The “patriotism” of “PatSocs” is vastly different. PatSocs are a very specific reactionary group with specific views here in the west.
But thy the fuck everything the anti-"patsocs" did up to date was to make the word "patriotism" haram in almost every communist space despite knowing what you said in the first paragraph yourself?
At best it's american exceptionalism in the wild ride, and at worst an op to sow mistrust between american communists and all others. And Lemmy is still infinite better than reddit where even Genzedong banned people for even attemping to discuss it.
Idk about those "specific reactionary group" "patsoc" guys, but if they are socialchauvinists, call them what they are. Will you start to call nazis "socialists" too, because it's in the name?
The particular group of internet dweebs being critiqued call themselves patriotic socialists or socialist patriots. That's just kinda how language works. You can't change it any more than you can stop libs from calling MLs tankies.
So i was right at first and it's just an youtube circlejerk... No wonder nobody could answer me when i asked for something concrete, where are the names or the organizations. And to think i was banned for that from GenZedong (at that point it was not much loss but still).
Wait. Wait wait wait wait. Does this mean the most of internet spaces for english speaking ML's abandon one of the most successful weapons in the arsenal of proletariat, weapon which has been used with great effect since Lenin first formulated the theory of socialism in one country, because of a fucking kneejerk reaction to an YOUTUBE CIRCLEJERK?!?
Yes it does. Were they socialist? No. That's why we aren't calling them that. "Patsoc" used for a socialchauvinist is a wretched word, entirely giving away very important concept and castrating yourself.
It's fine if american communist don't want to use that word, even if a little misguided, as Lenin explained, but don't push that as general rule, it's american exceptionalism and it's defeatism.
Again, "national socialism" is excellent example in yet another way. Just look at the history of the world after WW2. how many systems that could be easily name "national socialism" were there, but we can't name them like this, because this term is forever lost, even despite it means something completely unrelated to socialism. Don't lose more ground, class war is going here too.
But thy the fuck everything the anti-"patsocs" did up to date was to make the word "patriotism" haram in almost every communist space despite knowing what you said in the first paragraph yourself?
At best it's american exceptionalism in the wild ride, and at worst an op to sow mistrust between american communists and all others. And Lemmy is still infinite better than reddit where even Genzedong banned people for even attemping to discuss it.
Idk about those "specific reactionary group" "patsoc" guys, but if they are socialchauvinists, call them what they are. Will you start to call nazis "socialists" too, because it's in the name?
The particular group of internet dweebs being critiqued call themselves patriotic socialists or socialist patriots. That's just kinda how language works. You can't change it any more than you can stop libs from calling MLs tankies.
Plus there's more than one kind of chauvinism.
So i was right at first and it's just an youtube circlejerk... No wonder nobody could answer me when i asked for something concrete, where are the names or the organizations. And to think i was banned for that from GenZedong (at that point it was not much loss but still).
Wait. Wait wait wait wait. Does this mean the most of internet spaces for english speaking ML's abandon one of the most successful weapons in the arsenal of proletariat, weapon which has been used with great effect since Lenin first formulated the theory of socialism in one country, because of a fucking kneejerk reaction to an YOUTUBE CIRCLEJERK?!?
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Yes it does. Were they socialist? No. That's why we aren't calling them that. "Patsoc" used for a socialchauvinist is a wretched word, entirely giving away very important concept and castrating yourself.
It's fine if american communist don't want to use that word, even if a little misguided, as Lenin explained, but don't push that as general rule, it's american exceptionalism and it's defeatism.
Again, "national socialism" is excellent example in yet another way. Just look at the history of the world after WW2. how many systems that could be easily name "national socialism" were there, but we can't name them like this, because this term is forever lost, even despite it means something completely unrelated to socialism. Don't lose more ground, class war is going here too.