The description of the Matrix users is hysterically accurate.

First time I went there, I had an obscure problem with an app. A very friendly and helpful person jumped in and said they have that app but don't use it often. Then proceeded to run multiple tests on their end to validate my experience. I was blown away. Super solid dude.

Every other time I've been mostly ignored. Which is fine if people can't help. But as I check in all I see is forum fighting about what is right and best, as if there's only 1 answer.

I've been trying to work this out since the beginning of the year. This is anecdotally what I've done, what works and what doesn't.

Most of my solution comes from JMP.chat for my phone number along with the cheogram app for functionality.

Basically I got a number for friends and family. I got a second number to give to businesses that don't care about VoIP (my dentist etc). ($5 ea). Cons here are that SMS groups are limited to 10 recipients. This doesn't work for my large family chats (I can get them but can't respond). Another thing I dislike is since its XMPP based, all contacts are listed as their phone number if in a group, so it's hard to tell who's in it. (Solo texts show as names just fine). They have a premium tier that routes differently to allow more than 10 in a group text, but I've tried that twice now and the actual phone calling gets screwed up. So I'm still trying to get it all sorted out (and I'm not optimistic) It's also a service only in USA and CAN.

My original number that I've had for 20 years and all big tech have assigned to me, I ported to google voice ($20 fee)

Since my original phone number was a carrier number it is already assigned to all the stringent companies like banks. They continue to use it without knowing its now a VoIP number. I have all SMS messages forwarded to my email so I don't have to log into google ever. It works perfectly for 2FA. Shortcoming of this is that any group texts the email just says you got a group text, but a single source text the actual text is forwarded. I don't use it for groups so its not a problem but just mentioning it as a potential con. Then of course, its legacy so opening new accounts won't work the same way since its a VoIP number now.

I bought a hotspot from calyx. By far the most expensive part of my solution. But it gives me WiFi access without a standard carrier (it does use T-Mobile but calyx doesn't track you like they do). Check them out to see if it fits your threat model. It works out to about $50/mo but the biggest issue is that its an annual lump sum.

Another option I've been trying is 4freedommobile. They have decent plans and are focused on privacy. Everything runs through their app for encryption. But I've found the app lacking both in UI and functionality. You can't do group SMS (which is apparently coming very soon) but my biggest issue is they require google play services for notifications. They state they don't, but they do. Hands down it just doesn't work without it. So that's a deal killer for me.

Honorable mention is the premium service Elfani. I haven't used it but have considered it. Its very expensive at $99 a month but is secure. However I don't see much on privacy so I'm not sure how different they really end up being from their base AT&T provider.

Yeah, that's why I mentioned having a secondary profile. Some stuff like bank apps you just can't get away from so a profile with play services running is a workable solution. If you have a pixel phone already, you can give it a shot. One very nice feature of GOS is that it's super easy to install - and uninstall if it's not for you.

Like you said, banking apps. The logic behind that is they use google to security check their apps. A random non-bank example would be the slick deals app. Without play services it would just open then crash.

Many apps use play services for their notification system. So for instance, proton mail works fine but notifications do not.

NFC is not supported, so anything that uses that won't work.

Not an app, but I was surprised that widgets don't work unless you're in the primary profile. Technically they work on any profile, but they randomly get deleted, and frequently. It's a known bug that probably will never get fixed because the source of it comes from stock android.

I will mention that you can have a profile running play services, which gives you access to many apps that wouldnt normally work. And it's sandboxed so it has less impact on your information (I don't know all the specifics but it does limit in some way how much it can snoop into the rest of the OS). Then you can also set up granular controls on your apps to limit them from snooping.

The appropriate view of your money is that you should never have to pay for the priveledge to use it. Do not ever use a bank, credit card, or any financial account that you need to pay for. They are making money off of you, which I'm OK with, but I'm sure as hell not going to pay them so they can make money with my money.

I don't know specifically, but you can look at blocking Steam's telemetry.

Thank you. I'm going to check it out.

People like to ntpick and fight. GrapheneOS is one of the best options (realistically of just a few) out there, and it's pretty damn good and simple to get into.

Looks a bit like Sigourney Weaver to me.

Proton and Mullvad are the only 2 I'd trust. I suspect that they get similar results.

Proton has gotten a lot better since launch, but it's always a moving target with these things. I really only have issues with some store sites that just don't load with a VPN, which only tells me I don't want to shop there.

Lmao, I'm right there with you. Was looking at privacy type stuff so went to .ml. Thought the communist thing was weird, but hey people are weird, whatever. I guess I'm that naive.

The problem with YouTube is there isn't an alternative.

Anytime I think it's morphed to a state where people will leave for the next great thing, they don't.

The content is there, and alternatives don't have that backing them so it's too inconvenient to move on. Once people have that pain point, they go back.

I appreciate this list. Half of them I've never heard of, so it's a treasure trove to me.

This is a good discussion point, rather than an arms race discussion of ads vs adblockers.

Some key points to make are that Google is making a crap ton of money from ads, they are keeping most of it so creators must resort to sponsorships and patreon. Google additionally makes money by selling your profile data.

It's not like I have a true answer to your question, but a "workable" system should consist of: Google makes money Creators make money Customers are reasonably private The concept of making money isn't about making the entire system worse, just so you pay for it not to be

My problem with Google is they don't really care. They'll burn it all if it makes them money until it's dead.

There could be some key features that get implemented on a paid tier, but paying is just ads vs no ads.

An equally valid question would be, what can YT do to incentivize you to pay? They could ad features only available to subscribers, but they really don't.

I would make it a semi walled garden, with free and premium content. Subscription tiers would be for customers and creators alike. Vimeo has a good system (though not perfect) with feature sets only available certain tiers. There's incentive to upgrade if you want those features.

Here's a big differentiator though. YT has this magic algorithm that feeds you what it wants to. Creators have no say in that (nor do customers). But if I post a video you like, I want you to watch more of my videos, not videos from somebody else similar to me. YT takes full control, and sends people away just as fast as sending them in. Why would I pay for that?

Platforms like Vimeo don't do that (I'm not advocating vimeo, they're just the example I think is most comparable). Wouldn't having some level of control over that as a viewing customer and content creator have value? No, let's just slap ads on it.

I can also argue that this goes against my final criterea point, that YT just made things worse with their algorithm and this is just paying to remove it. There was a day where subscribing to a channel meant you got to see their videos. No bell ringing needed.

And I'm sorry I just vomited my brain into these thoughts and wall of text. If you made it this far, bless you.

But this is why I don't use YT directly. I was with vanced but ended up with newpipe, because its a simple scraper. That fact not only removes ads, but it gives me control of what I watch with my time (which has value). That is the lesson YT forgot, and the root of why any of this is an issue.

Worth is subjective. It sounds to me like it's not a fit to your criteria so I wouldn't recommend it.

Personally, I like it. I actively use email, drive, calendar, and VPN. Yes, they're all separate apps so it's not like its a true ecosystem, but its really the closest to a suite of products you'll get in the privacy world. Mostly though, I like what the company stands for and how they treat their customers.

Biggest issue I have is their password manager. It's been improved since I've tried it but it wasn't great. The main issue I had was it sharing the same password as the rest of it's apps. No. I want a single password manager password I can remember and then a unique, complex password for apps. So I use a separate password manager.

I also don't use their aliases. I tried to switch over and just didn't like how it handled the headers and how it worked with my sieve filters. One day I'll probably make the switch, but it just doesn't seem worth the time when Addy is $1/mo.

My neighbors listen to great music. Whether they like it or not.