OK, and so that means you can't say 1 bad thing about China? That makes no sense, especially in our circles. I understand defending China when talking with liberals or conservatives, cause they have no right criticizing China when they support systems that are 20x times worse and more cruel.

But I don't understand why a leftist shouldn't be able to bring up the number of billionaires in China, for example, when talking to other leftists without being labeled as some sort of traitor or propagandist or some other dumb bullshit. "They have less and more regulated billionaires than the U.S." -- yeah, I think that's awesome, I would still prefer if billionaires didn't exist though. And me saying that doesn't mean I'm equating China to the U.S.

Or human rights -- yeah, I know and constantly criticize the U.S. on their human rights violations -- what kind of hypocrite would I be if then I stay silent or just says "well, the U.S. is worse" when China is brought up. Fuck that.

Leftists that don't support American/western bullshit should absolutely have a right to level reasonable criticism towards China or any Marxist country.

You're acting like I'm putting my criticism of China above criticism of the U.S. and other countries when that is clearly not what I said. I said I support China, but that shouldn't mean complete blindness and absolute support in absolutely every fragment of their rule.

I should be allowed to think their economic system isn't perfect without getting berated that "you just don't get it, it's all part of the plan man, just wait a few more years, you'll see." I'm not calling for the destruction of Chinese communism or saying the U.S.'s system is better for fucks sake.

Why are you telling us this and not bringing your vague concerns to the CPC itself?

What is this even supposed to mean???

What is the reason any western leftist even brings this up in the first place anyway?

Because you're allowed to criticize stuff you support dude. What, if China tomorrow started, I don't know, killing gay people for example, should I just not talk about it ever?? Come on, don't be such babies. Or if you have a friend that you love and support, is it a sin to criticize them or call them out when they're doing something bad?

I'm gonna be honest, some people in these circles have a way too delusional view of China for my liking, and will defend basically every part of it.

I personally think you don't have to do that. There's a lot of problems in China, and it doesn't make you a "bad Marxist" to admit that. I still support it however, while it's not perfect I wouldn't say it's a capitalist country like the U.S. and I think the world is a better place with China in it than if the U.S. had zero competition in the world stage.

The U.S., Brazil, and India all have far-right crazies in charge. Can you imagine the world if China wasn't what it is? The world would literally be dominated by fascists. I'll always prefer a "not so perfect" communism to fascism and shit like that. God knows what kinda leadership China would have right now if it wasn't for the communist party.

Yeah, I wish it was better and I do think there are serious issues. But compared to the alternatives, I'm glad China exists and I support them.

Destiny is a bad example cause he isn't really breadtube or a leftist. He's a self-described neoliberal.

And I disagree, you need YouTubers and internet personalities for this shit. You'll never get a big percentage of the population to your side by just them "reading theory." That's one of the reasons the right has been so successful online, they had a bunch of content creators just pushing people into that fascist pipeline, while leftist had just books for the longest time.

Sure, not all of them are ML communists, but I still think having more normie socialists is better than just having a bunch of nazis online.

Like, I started as a simple dem-soc who liked Bernie and occasionally watched Destiny debate Nazis and shit, then eventually I grew out of that, started getting exposed to some more radical lefty views and started following some actual lefty content creators, etc. And eventually, I came to where I am now -- very unlikely to happen if someone just said "read a book" to me.

You can't relly on just books in this day and age.