Of course there is corruption, nationalism, whatever. I just like their economic system, or at least the concept of it,
Then I'm not talking about people like you. I'm talking about literal dogmatic North Korea lovers who refuse to listen to any criticism about it.
It's not just informal market, Christ. Its the entire economy. All goods are produced finally to be sold. That's commodity production. There is wage-labor, there are markets, there are prices, there is profit. How does the average North Korean get his food, his clothing, his utilities, his luxuries? Does he not pay for it? How does he earn money? Does he not work for it? The social relations in North Korea are fundamentally the same as any capitalist country. You are stuck on the concept of state control as if that is what socialism is. I bet you also post the meme "Socialism is when the govt does stuff" and then unironically believe that when it comes to NK.
I'm not arguing about semantics, I am describing again and again how commodity production is the fundamental feature of capitalism and how it exists in NK. Nowhere in Marx's work would you find a single line saying you can have commodity production under socialism. He and Engels and every other non-revisionist socialist repeatedly emphasize that you cannot have commodity production if you want to eliminate exploitation, alienation, oppression and all other features of class society.
I don't know how anyone can parse the massive amount of repression and exploitation that goes on in NK and consider that as a viable or desirable social form. People do read these threads, even if they don't upvote them. Even if a single person reads and understands it, it is worth it.
The state performs the role of the capitalist for the large firms. They also have SEZs with foreign investment, they have a huge black market, and they also have many self-employed people. Quite a few of their businesses are state-run in writing but actually ran as private businesses. They also suffer from massive corruption all around.
Capitalism is not just markets and private ownership, the fundamental element in capitalism is commodity production. This is one of the key findings of Marx. It is a Stalinist revisionism that you can have "socialist commodity production".
I don't give a shit about Lenin, I was referring to that because of the discrepancy between his view of the State and what he himself actually promoted, not Stalin. That's not a minor point. I'm only talking about Lenin because MLs see him as some kind of authority.
I don't mean to say he is an anarchist. But calling for the abolition of standing armies, police, the bureaucracy and replacing it with a universal militia is pretty damn anarchist position. Almost no ML would agree with Lenin on this front, but they "claim"' him anyway.
You're mistaken, I do not agree with you. By not-capitalism I meant the kind of capitalism we have in liberal countries. Having a command economy with commodity production is still capitalism, not of the liberal variety but its own form. It is NOT socialism. I'm not going to let you take advantage of my disengagement by taking some kind of "win" based on an obvious misreading.
It's clear you have no idea what you're talking about. Korean unification is a long term goal of both countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_reunification
I'm a communist, you're not if you think NK is some model we should follow. In fact, no Western leftist actually takes NK as a model, their "support" is purely based on aesthetics and completely misguided geopolitics. NK is already a capitalist country, joining SK doesnt require removing their sovereignity, at least they would drop their mismanaged command economy and enjoy some economic development.
Command economy =/= socialism. They don't even have a proper functioning command economy like the USSR, they are mostly liberalized. They are a capitalist country with nationalized businesses and a massive private black market. It's purely their aesthetics that attracts Western leftist support. No western leftist actually wants to implement the policies that NK implements.
Nice deflection. Western leftists praise Cuba and NK but would never admit they wouldnt want to live in those countries. Why dont you fight for equal wages no matter what, rather than higher minimum wages? Why dont you fight for nationalization of all companies, instead of the "worker co-ops" you fetishize? You fetishize the aesthetics of these countries but dont actually want the policies that these countries implement. You so desperately want to root for the underdog as some sort of validation, so you ignore all the genuine atrocities, inefficiencies and corruption suffered by the people of these countries. It's pure orientalism with socialist characteristics. Pretend I'm a chud if it makes you feel better.
This is a terrible idea. Mods are already this class of empowered users and they're bad enough. No need to add more classes into this mix. I have a better suggestion, anonymize all accounts, making all voices equal. No more power user bullshit.
It becomes part of a country that is 20 times wealthier than it? Oh the horror
Leftist theory : Speaking facts is being lazy.
Leftist theory : Hating North Korea means you love South Korea.
but to point out that their factories and logistic networks could not function under a free market economy even though they had been productive for decades.
This is just proof that one form of capitalism is incompatible with other forms. It is not proof that USSR was socialist. Once again, not-capitalism =/= socialism. It is not enough to just "abolish" what you think is capitalism. Nationalizing everything, planning commodity production, price controls etc is not socialism.
Your articles talk about 640 million dollars per year of luxury goods imports. That’s less than 3% of their economy. Are you saying the DPRK citizens are terribly exploited of 3% of their labour? You must know most capitalist countries have s/v ratios of 30 to 60%.
Is this a parody? First of all, in the US, it's less than 0.5% of their economy https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20201117005990/en/Global-Luxury-Goods-Market-Report-2020-Market-to-Reach-403.2-Billion-by-2027---ResearchAndMarkets.com. But this is all splitting hairs, we are talking about how having exploitation, commodity production etc does not make it socialist, and now you are making hairbrained defences saying $700 million dollars of stolen wealth annually diverted to Kim and his cronies is justifiable. We don't even know the s/v ratio of NK because prices dont reflect SNLT there. That is not a good thing btw, because it completely mystifies exploitation whereas at least in private capitalism, you can calculate the rate of exploitation.
I'm disengaging here. This discussion is becoming less and less rational. I think I have achieved my goal, i.e. showing the readers to what extent of irrationality you have to go to defend NK. I will be disengaging here.
Planned economy is still capitalist. Belarus was always capitalist, both before the fall of USSR and after. Simply planning the economy doesnt make it non-capitalist. Inflation for 3 years is nothing compared to the 12 million excess deaths suffered by Russians.
https://time.com/5628028/north-korea-sanctions-luxury-goods/ https://www.thefashionlaw.com/as-north-korea-continues-to-boost-its-luxury-imports-a-look-at-the-role-of-luxury-in-the-hermit-kingdom/
He's a great example of a social democrat a.k.a capitalists who want to give small concessions to douse revolutionary spirit. He is part of the system, not working outside of it. He is not giving any ground, he is working exactly as he wants to.
You're getting close.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Finance_(North_Korea)
Communism is when you do commodity production but you dont care whether your firms are profitable. Enterprises literally have to make profits to survive. They dont just get to absorb capital and do whatever they want. North Korea has a 50% tax on profit :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_North_Korea.
Communism is when you abolish rent. Also this doesnt matter when there are like 10 other forms of exploitation still present.
Evidence? Even if this is true, it doesnt mean shit, because commodities still exist. The average worker doesnt buy means of production, he buys consumption goods.
??????????????? money works as money in NK. Once again you're using the argument that the state controls the majority of production as evidence of socialism.
I suggest you actually read Capital instead of pretending like you have.