Thank you for the answer and for your time! I wish you a nice day!
Thank you for the answer and for your time! I wish you a nice day!
Thank you for mentioning that! Did the slower distros you tested come with older kernels?
So..., you don't think it will make a difference. However, you do affirm that whatever CachyOS does is noticably better than the rest.
Perhaps more importantly, have you actually measured 1% lows or 0.1% lows on games. And did you compare how different distros fared in this regard?
TLE did a performance test on this distro and it was pretty much the same in terms of FPS as other distros.
Without measuring any 1% lows or 0.1% lows.
I enjoy TLE's content, but that video is far from exhaustive on this.
Unless a better comparison comes out, we should reserve ourselves from making any judgements on this particular subject.
Definitely one of the better answers I've received so far. Thank you for that. However, I feel as if the following part reveals that it's not as 'protected' as I'd like:
It also doesn’t protect you if someone gets root access to your device through other remote means.
Though, at this point, I've somewhat accepted that I'm seeking a software solution for a hardware problem. Hence, the impossibility of my query... I hope I'm wrong and perhaps you can point me towards the solution I'm seeking. However, if that's not the case, then I would like you to know that I appreciate your comment. Thank you.
This seems like a very complicated way to achieve your goal! It sounds like sitting yourself down and giving you a stern talking to might be a beter aporoach.
You're probably right. But, it ensures a surefire method if accomplished.
Having said that, if you have these very important files that you don't want to lose, please make sure they're backed up somewhere off of your machine. Storage fails, and it's a horrible feeling losing something important. Unfortunately doing so would defeat the approach you're thinking of.
Thank you for your concerns!
This might be a case of needing to reframe the question to get to the cause of the issue, and then solve that.
Makes sense.
So, why do you want to make it hard to reinstall your machine?
I want to set it up in a particular way to ensure maximum productivity. But I'm afraid that I'll not go through with it (as has happened a lot in the past). Thus, making it impossible to reinstall should enable me to go through. As I wouldn't have any other choice.
Is it the amount of time you spend on it
The amount of time spent unproductively. Yes.
the chance of screwing it up
Nope. I haven't had a serious breakage since over one and a half years. I think I'm managing splendidly.
needing it working
Don't really have particular problems related to keeping my system up and running.
has it become a compulsion or something else?
Not sure what you meant with this.
Maybe if we can get to the root of the issue we can find a solution.
I believe I touched upon this earlier in this comment. I just want to be very productive.
With regard to TPM, it's basically just a key store, so you can use it fir anything really, althought it's normally used by generating a TPM key and using it to encrypt the key that's actually used to encrypt your data, storing the encrypted key with the OS. Just reinstalling won't wipe the TPM, but unless you made an effort to save the encrypted key it'll be gone. Given your problem statement above it just adds to the data you'd need to save, which isn't helpful.
Uhmm..., I feel as if I should properly read up on this. Have you got any pointers you would recommend?
😅. It's a requirement that devices stay on the same drive that I run my system from.
Read the rest of the paragraph and also the next paragraph if you haven't yet.
If that didn't answer your query, do you oppose the following statement found on Gentoo's wiki:
"systemd is a modern SysV-style init and rc replacement for Linux systems."
And if so, why?
IIRC, any of the uBlue images offer to ship these by default. Hence, they might as well pick one of those instead.
(CONTINUED)
This second comment only exists because all I wanted to say didn't fit in the previous one.
So without further a due.
“However, it seems to be less ambitious in scope and vision.”
I will not commit to a rigorous comparison in which their respective PR talks or points related to ambition, scope and vision are mentioned. Instead, I'll put forward reasons for why I believe this to be the case.
rpm-ostree
, for the container workflow Toolbx' inception is materialized. Reproducibility (to a very significant degree) is achieved. And, as mentioned earlier, it can even start boasting about being declarative (to a degree). By contrast, where does openSUSE Aeon stand? It's only achieved atomicity. That's it. No mention of reproducibility. No mention of the ambition to be declarative. Nothing. Their commitment to container workflows didn't even lead to building in-house tooling. Instead, they "outsourced' it by using an existing solution (first Toolbx and then Distrobox) that was derived (but ultimately became more of a superset) of Toolbx; i.e. Distrobox. Don't get me wrong; I have preferred Distrobox over Toolbx (and will probably continue to do so). However, isn't it painfully obvious that one is inferior (in ambition) when its has to rely on tooling provided by the other?bootc
has been successfully created to tackle some problems. The ambition is clear. Meanwhile, I just don't see the same advancements for openSUSE MicroOS. Heck, even YaST, one of openSUSE's killer features is absent. Why? One of the reasons is because it allows for too much customization... Peculiar. Because I thought that openSUSE's reliance on btrfs snapshots would allow them to customize a lot more easily. But, unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be the case.The writing above was a lot more ramble-y and unorganized compared to what I write usually. Blame my aching wrist. Regardless, it should be more than enough. However, if you disagree or if I'm wrong, then I'd love to hear about it.
And, if you somehow believe that openSUSE Aeon is more ambitious than Fedora Atomic, then please feel free to state why you think that to be the case.
Edit: I just noticed how I missed a question:
I am not sure I understand what you mean by:
Consider checking up on where Wayland, systemd, PipeWire, PulseAudio etc first appeared; so on which particular distro.
So, it was meant for you to notice the trend of how new, (r)evolutionary and crucial tech (i.e. software) are first adopted on Fedora. For each one of them, if you look at their respective wiki page, you can check how it's adopted and from which distro it started out. This trend has been going on for quite some time and will continue to be the case.
Btw, I apologize for the insane info dump 😅.
Thank you for the reply!
Are you referring to use those packages as default?
I don't understand why this is relevant. But, to answer your question, a modern system should already be on systemd, Wayland and PipeWire unless one has (for some reason) ideological qualms with systemd or if the maturity of Wayland isn't quite ready for their specific needs.
The "should" used earlier isn't used as my personal bias or whatsoever. It's simply the default found on the upstreams projects. GNOME and KDE (the most popular DEs) default to Wayland. PipeWire has become default for at least GNOME (even on Debian). And systemd is the default on almost all Linux systems.
Furthermore, this set of software is not a random set for which Fedora happens to be the first to adopt. In fact, these are crucial parts of how we interact with Linux; these constitute the backbone if you will.
Afaik Fedora OS is not even rolling release
Firstly, no one refers to Fedora as Fedora OS. Secondly, Fedora's release cycle is often referred to as semi-rolling release. With that, it's meant that some packages arrive as they come (very close to how rolling release operates). However, other packages only arrive with the next point release. Though, Fedora has its Fedora Rawhide branch that operates as its rolling release branch.
However, the fact that you mention this, means that we have misunderstood eachother. I don't claim that new versions/updates arrive first on Fedora. I don't even claim this for any of the earlier mentioned packages. However, what I do mean is that Fedora is the first to adopt these technologies in the first place. So, the first release/version of systemd, PipeWire, Wayland etc was released on Fedora. Then, within months or years, it was adopted by other distros as well.
so I cannot fathom how it has packages earlier than the typical bleeding-edge candidates.
See previous paragraph. And, you don't need to fathom it; I'm just stating the facts. If you do seek a reason, it's related to Fedora's relation to Red Hat and how most of these technologies originate from efforts coming from either Red Hat employees or made possible through their funding. Then, when it comes to testing those things, Fedora acts as their guinea pig. That's why Fedora is sometimes referred to as Red Hat's testing bed distro. This doesn't only come with its positive side, because it may also come with a negative impact to its stability. However, if one is interested in what's next for Linux, then there's no alternative to Fedora.
Why are you mixing Fedora Atomic with the regular Fedora Distro?
Because OP actually was in praise of Fedora after using Fedora Kinoite (i.e. Fedora Atomic KDE). And then, you critiqued it (i.e. Fedora) for having no selling points. So, it was rather ambiguous.
Furthermore, Fedora has actually mentioned (for at least two and a half years now) that they intend for Fedora Atomic to be the future of Fedora. So, in a few years of time, what we'll refer to as Fedora will simply be Fedora Atomic of today. Take note that this doesn't mean that traditional Fedora will cease to exist. Rather, it will be referred by a different name (perhaps Fedora Classic (but I actually don't know)).
...how is something like this objectively valid?
Alright, I made a couple of claims:
"It’s also the most mature attempt.";
First of all, we'd have to properly define what "Nix'ify" even means or what I used it for. So, in the simplest of terms, I meant it as "Taking design elements of NixOS and applying them to an existing product. And then publishing/releasing it as a new product."
So, basically every distro that's commonly referred to as 'immutable' and that's originated from or has loose relations to an existing distro applies. Therefore, something like Guix System does not apply; because it's an entirely new project with nothing that pre-existed it without its NixOS influences. On the other hand; Fedora Atomic, openSUSE MicroOS Desktop and the upcoming Ubuntu Core Desktop definitely do apply. (If the upcoming Serpent OS is "Solus v2" then we can also mention that one here). The addition/admission of distros like Arkane Linux, AstOS, blendOS, MocaccinoOS, Nitrux and Vanilla OS (to name a few) is murky, but (for the sake of argument) we'll not exclude these.
So, a proper study of their relative maturity would require a lot more effort than either of us is willing to put into. But, I made the claim based on the following (in alphabetical order):
(And finally) Rate of 'Nix'ification'; Atomic -> Reproducible -> Declarative. These stages are passed through by aspiring 'immutable' distros when Nix'ifying.
For example, from almost its inception, Fedora Atomic was atomic and had a healthy portion of reproducibility. With the relatively recent transition to OCI (for updating etc), it also became (somewhat) declarative and further improved its reproducibility.
Likewise, we see similar developments in other projects:
Fedora Atomic has (almost) completed/finished its "Nix'ification". While the same can be said about other projects, this does not apply to all of them. Hence, even if Fedora is not necessarily the best at this, it definitely finds itself amongst the frontrunners.
"Derivatives like Bazzite are the product of this endeavour."
This is simply a fact. Bazzite is only possible because of Fedora Atomic.
"From the OG distros, only openSUSE (with its Aeon) has released an attempt."
I define OG distros as the big, independent distros that will probably never lose their relevancy. Think of Arch, Debian, Fedora, Gentoo, NixOS, openSUSE, Slackware, Solus OS, Void etc. For the sake of argument, we could include all independent distros. Out of these; Fedora, openSUSE, Solus and Ubuntu are the only ones for which we know their team/organization are actively working to erupt an 'immutable' distro while (originally) their distro followed a traditional model. Ubuntu Core Desktop has yet to release and the same applies to whatever Solus is cooking. From openSUSE, we have openSUSE Aeon (and Kalpa) and for Fedora we got its own 4 atomic spins. Furthermore, we got dozens of derivatives based on Fedora Atomic. So once more, this is just factual.
"However, it seems to be less ambitious in scope and vision."
This is definitely a loaded claim. I'll answer this in my next comment.
I understand you like Fedora
Exactly. But it's on merits. On the other hand, it seems as if you dislike Fedora for some reason. However, it's unclear to me as to why that is.
but you make claims without any proof or just pure opinion based.
I can back up (almost) every claim I'm making (as you should have noticed by now). Not citing sources or whatsoever is due to laziness and because I don't think you'll check those sources anyway (like how you seemingly didn't check if the earlier mentioned software indeed were first adopted on Fedora and if so; why). However, if you want me to cite sources on statements I make, then please mention the exact statements I'm making and I will back those up with sources.
It's also peculiar that you make uninformed guesses or claims without backing them up yourself. Nor do you feel compelled to look up if the unsure statement/claim is even correct or not in the first place. Though, I should at least compliment you for being honest/transparent when making unsure claims/statements!
Yet, I'm still waiting for you to name a distro with more impressive unique selling points 😜.
Would you mind elaborating?
You seem to be ignorant; the use of this word is not meant derogatory. In all fairness, it's perfectly fine; we all gotta start out somewhere. So, please allow me to elaborate.
Being the first distro on which new technologies are introduced
Consider checking up on where Wayland, systemd, PipeWire, PulseAudio etc first appeared; so on which particular distro.
Also atomic branch?
Fedora Atomic, i.e. the first attempt to Nix'ify an established distro. Most commonly known through Fedora Silverblue or Fedora Kinoite. Peeps formerly referred to these as immutable. However, atomic (i.e. updates either happen or don't; so no in-between state even with power outage) is more descriptive. It's also the most mature attempt. Derivatives like Bazzite are the product of this endeavour. From the OG distros, only openSUSE (with its Aeon) has released an attempt. However, it seems to be less ambitious in scope and vision. I wish it the best, but I find it hard to justify it over Fedora Atomic.
SELinux might be a fair point, but I doubt that ss unique to Fedora tbh.
OOTB, apart from Fedora (Atomic), it's only found on (some) Fedora derivatives and openSUSE Aeon (which forces you to use GNOME and Aeon's specific container-focused workflow). Arch, Gentoo and openSUSE (perhaps even Debian) do 'support' SELinux, but it can be a real hassle do deal with. And it's not OOTB.
If you make claims, you better substantiate it. I just did your homework 😂. Regardless, I'm still interested to hear a distro with more impressive USPs. Let me know 😉.
Nvidia can be a bitch. And it's unfortunate that Fedora isn't particularly well known for handling that graciously.
I’d recommend Linux Mint for beginners after my experiences.
Absolutely fair. FWIW, if you ever feel like giving Fedora another chance, consider doing it through its derivative (i.e. Bazzite).
What's with openSUSE Tumbleweed?
Do you think its USPs are more compelling? If so, consider naming those USPs in order for them to be evaluated.
How about
All of which are unique.
To be frank, Fedora's unique selling points are very compelling. I wonder if you could name a distro with even more impressive USPs.
Why does nobody here ever recommend Fedora to noobs?
It does happen. It's simply not the popular choice for the following reasons:
Having said all of that, I've been using Fedora Atomic for over two years now. Heck, Silverblue was my first distro. And it has been excellent so far. Furthermore, with Bazzite (based on Fedora Atomic) and Nobara (based on Fedora) often mentioned in conversations regarding beginner friendly distros, even if Fedora itself isn't explicitly mentioned, the ecosystem is clearly healthy and will continue to flourish.
Ok, I’m still not clear on exactly what you’re trying to achieve as I can’t quite see the connection between somehow preventing certain files being duplicated when cloning the disk and preventing yourself from reinstalling the system.
Premises:
Therefore, I would lose those very important files if I were to attempt a wipe. If said files are important enough for me to reconsider wiping, then the act of protecting them from copy/mv/clone has fulfilled its job of preventing me from reinstalling the OS.
Bear in mind that reinstalling the system would replace all of the OS, so there’s no way to leave counter-measures there, and the disk itself can’t do anything to your data, even if it could detect a clone operation.
I understand.
If what you’re trying to protect against is someone who knows everything you do accessing your data, you could look to use TPM to store the encryption key for your FDE. That way you don’t know the password, it’s stored encrypted with a secret key that is, in turn, stored and protected by your CPU. That way a disk clone couldn’t be used on any hardware except your specific machine.
Very interesting. A couple of questions:
Very informative post. Thank you!
Thank you for sharing! If you remember, could you share your findings?