ormr

I'm not detached from my worldview. But if holding a belief means I have to view everything that happens through the same lens, and not being able to appreciate multiple perspectives on an issue, then yes, I'd rather not hold a belief but decide from case to case. If that means to you that I'm detached then I can't help it.

Being able to enjoy an argument doesn't imply that I don't take it seriously. Feeling troubled and challenged by people who don't conform to a world view... That could surely be said about the reactions of many here, why should I be an exception?

I don't sort most views here in my "uncivilized" folder and I couldn't care less to "report" that to anyone, as I'm not aligning with any particular community and am not interested in making fun of others when I can be sure that I will get nice slaps on the back for. You surely do enough for the "uncontacted tribe" image yourselves when I remember the (funny) posts about the panic of some people in other communities after federation. Plesse don't imply that I invented this shit or that it's now suddenly some offensive perspective.

I know about these opinions, especially since I'm living in the East. Also I genuinely respect them. But of course there are reasons for this: The people who wouldn't voice that opinion have been long gone. Either fled before 89 or moved to Western Germany in the years after, as millions of young Eastern Germans have done. And those who stayed were most likely those living on the countryside where influence of the government was smaller and the oppression less notable. But of course the GDR was not hell on earth and some people had the chance to enjoy life every now and then.

Still... Even if not many were shot: Many more were interrogated and tortured in Stasi jail. And knowing that anyone, even your closest relatives, could be spying on you... Just because you didn't conform to the reason of state. That must've been horrible. It's not like people fled the country without reason.

That's what I came here for. I like the hexbear shitposting attitude :D

Just today I took the rare opportunity to dive into your echo chamber and have some debates. I hope y'all are not too triggered now. Don't take all the things I said too seriously. In the end I'm not 100% sure what the best course of action regarding Ukraine would be. But you certainly are, so having such discussions in a nuanced way really becomes difficult. Enjoyed it nevertheless so far.

Don't be mad that I'm lashing out a bit. At least you're saying clearly that I'm just falling for propaganda, not being able to think critically in your opinion. But I could say the exact same thing about you. Imo it's ignorance to lecture someone about the history of their own country as if that person had never informed themselves or reflected on that history. I didn't want to diminish the role of the Red Army in defeating the nazis, of course they had insane losses and contributed significantly to the victory over nazism. However I don't think that the Americans taking part in it did only play a minor part. Both sides working together was necessary to achieve this. And I don't think it makes any sense to argue about who contributed the most. Also completely besides the point because my argument was about pacifism. And neither the Russians nor the Americans defeated the nazis without weapons.

If we're already in illusionary politics land, here's my take on Donbass and Crimea. I don't care about their independence referendums. There's even a secessionist movement in Bavaria, demanding independence from Germany. Doesn't mean that any prick who thinks they deserve their own country should get one. How did the russians even end up there, if not by imperalist soviet policies which btw led to the deportation and death of millions who lived there before, e.g. Crimean Tatars. So Crimea belongs to the Tatars, right? Or no: Lets go back further. It belongs to the Greek who settled there before the Tatars! It's not like the Russians in Ukraine are some fucking indigenuous tribe whose customs and rituals deserve to be world heritage. While they should be treated with the same dignity as all citizens of Ukraine it's not like having a common language for teaching has anything to do with violating "ethnic constitutional rights".

In the end, the big majority of people in the Donbass would probably have preferred not to be occupied by unmarked troops sneaking into their homeland and afterwards being governed by idiotic strongmen who draft them for a war they never wanted.

Good god. How nice of you to clear me up about the history of my own country hahaha. I'm sure the invasion in Normandy was basically a stroll in the park for the Americans. And the Eastern Germans they were so glad about their "liberation" that the Soviet govt had to build a wall to keep people from running away from this GLORIOUS "democratic" state. Even shot people who wanted to exercise their right to leave.

But lets leave it at that. There's no sense in discussing with someone who thinks they are all-knowing keepers of the truth without even knowing the definition of doubt.

I agree that the invasion of Iraq was illegal and unjustified just as the invasion of Ukraine was, and it set a terrible precedent. If China would've been in the position to credibly fend off the invasion at that time (before it even started!) that would've been a great thing. Now I would say the same about Ukraine but the West didn't take the threat seriously enough back then.

A difference in outcome is imo that Iraq was a dictatorship to start with. When I talk to Ukrainian refugees now living here they tell me that they want to preserve the political freedoms they gained after the Maidan revolution. They don't want to become a puppet state similar to Belarus and many of them are determined to fight for that. Ukraine surely is far from a perfect democracy and it has it's share of nazis as all societies have. But who am I to tell the Ukrainians to just let it be, accept their defeat and flee while they still can? But the war is a terrible meat grinder and it should ne stopped ASAP. I wish for honest negotiations and that might even include some tough to swallow compromises for the Ukrainian side. But what's more important is that there needs to be a new security architecture that prevents future wars and works for all sides. The Ukrainians have been let down by all sides in the past as neither country from the West, nor Russia, who all guaranteed Ukraines security in treatys have met their obligations.

And the nazis I'm siding with are the Ukrainians? Laughable.

Also why do you confuse yourself with the people who historically never sided with the nazis? You might think to share some beliefs with these historical figures. But you're just a bigmouthed keyboard warrior who most likely never had to confront the choice between your life and your ideals.

And that belief is pacifism? That's of course a legitimate opinion to hold. But mine is different. The US has committed their fair share of atrocities over the decades. But I live in Germany. And if it weren't for the US involvment in WW2, I might be living in a fascist shithole today. So... is that comparable to the situation in Ukraine? Imo it is to a certain degree. Is war horrible? Of course, we should never fight them. But if someone wages war, ignoring all means of diplomacy because they think they'll profit from it, and your only option to end the war immediately is surrendering to maximalist demands.. with the expectation that this will again continue in some years with new demands... What you gonna do?

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I like your way of thought. We really have to give nature back in the future after everything we received.