Yeah I don’t think that works. Like Appel and Pannekoek and the other councilist’s plan do not shed the law of value.

They are not computing SNLT but the direct labor-time to produce goods. The value-form is abolished because commodities no longer exist. Nothing is produced to be exchanged, nothing has value. When planning production, you need to know how much labor is needed to produce according to a plan, how much labor should be allocated here or there, and whether or not your firm is efficient, by calculating its productivity factor. So labor-time is what is used to rationalize production.

Distribution is done in a way that is decided by the people themselves, but there are some objective laws to follow, for example, some part of the product goes into accumulation, some into social services etc. Using labor-time, it is possible to calculate these things in an exact manner. So the amount of social product that can be consumed individually is exactly known.

even when the labor-vouchers are gone, still are not imo producing for need.

They are producing for need even when using labor-vouchers, because there is no exchange here. Nobody makes money from what is produced.

:yes-sicko:

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So the issue is not that Stalin is a pedophile but that I mentioned pedophilia?

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The text is criticizing "State Socialism" as it existed in the USSR, not the NEP, which is just capitalism and Lenin explicitly maintained was capitalism. I cant handle this stupidity anymore. It's clear you have no intention of reading anything at all, being a braindead ML.

State and Revolution by Lenin - not Leninism

Who is even debating about State and Revolution here dumbass. I agree with everything Lenin wrote in State and Revolution. The Stalinist counterrevolution went against what was written in it by disarming the workers.

Btw I want you to know that I am "arguing" with you for entertainment. If you post more boring Stalinist tripe, instead of something new and spicy, I might just not respond anymore

It's Leninism bro, I swear

The text deals with how the "first stage of socialism" works where the maxim is "to each according to their contribution". The important point is that everything is objective, so questions of distribution can be resolved in a transparent manner. The text explains how the next stage of socialism is gradually achieved, by gradually creating and expanding firms called GSUs that take in labor-inputs, but their output is deducted from the total fund available for individual consumption, thus gradually eliminating even labor-vouchers.

I love wrecking the glorious Marxist-Leninist movement. It's so fun to destroy China and Cuba by posting passages from Marx. Turns out Marx himself was an ultra wrecker anti-communist

What can I say, the CIA didn't train me well enough

Yes I'm anti AES, I thought I already made it clear by linking this text which criticizes the Stalinist concept of socialism. Is that supposed to be some kind of gotcha?

In case you still didnt get it, he was being sarcastic in that passage.

Holy shit you actually are unable to read

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Also from the text (actually read for once)

"It is intended gradually to nationalise one industrial enterprise after another. In other words, to replace the private employers with the state, to continue capitalist industry only with a different exploiter ... It (the state) appears as employer in the place of the private employers, and the workers gain nothing from this, although indeed the state has strengthened its power and its means of oppression ... The more bourgeois society comes to realise that it cannot defend itself for ever against the tide of socialist ideas, the more do we approach that moment at which state socialism is proclaimed in real earnest, and the last battle which Democracy has to fight out will be waged under the slogan: "Forward to Social Democracy, forward to State Socialism!" - W. Liebknecht (d.1900)

40 years before Stalinist bullshit, state socialism was already called out by a principled Marxist. It really is a last ditch effort to preserve the value-form, which the bourgeoisie is wise enough to know will contain the germ of capitalism, and save it from complete destruction. Your politics are deader than the Soviet Union, and you can only delude yourself that China is ML while it has less public sector employment than Norway.

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Increasing labor productivity and consequent rise in standard of living is because of the profit motive. Decreasing labor costs through increasing productivity = more profit, at least until the competition catches up. Under communism, increasing labor productivity is pursued for its own sake, not indirectly through the search for profit(although its quite meaningless to talk about profit as money itself wouldnt be a thing)

The creation of the Proletariat is why we even talk about communism at all, of course thats a good thing.

Take this as a blessing. Time to log off and do praxis in the real world

Socialism is when you have bourgeois nation states with socialism in their name