True. Pollution is not the result of individuals failing to sacrifice — that’s called the Plight of the Commons. It’s the result everyone collectively failing to sacrifice (regulate and share and conserve resources).
Believe me, if I was in power I would absolutely depredate Wall Street. I’d take them for every penny they have to clean up the planet. There would be no billionaires left. Every corp would be owned by the workers.
But our argument wasn’t about policy. It was about morality. And it doesn’t take a long conversation with the average American voter to realize they’re a fucking immoral imbecile.
So to be clear, if I gave Trump supporters a tax incentive and some education, they’d abandon their gas guzzlers and stop eating meat? Are you actually hearing yourself?
The social “structure” you’re describing is literally the manifestation of their will. Yes, it’s a self-perpetuating system, but it’s their system shaped by what they want.
You tell me they’re not evil, and then point to a system responsible for making them evil. Unbelievable.
The idea that climate change is happening because ordinary people won't give up their SUVs and stop eating beef is wrong [… because] the overwhelming majority of damage is being done the 100 largest companies.
Exxon, Alphabet, Tyson are all guilty of pollution, but they only exist — indeed, they can only exist — because people pay them to do so. Americans elect the politicians who shield Exxon from consequences, they endorse the policies that enable the ownership of private jets, of mansions, of sports cars, of cruise ships.
Exxon is literally the manifestation of their desires. If people weren’t willing to die over access to cheap fossil fuels we wouldn’t be in this predicament.
You think Americans care that Tyson tortures chickens? Have you met average Americans?? They do not give a fuck! They love cheap, unregulated, dirty meat. They love cheap gas. They love big cars, big houses, cruise ships, and they will die to stop you from taking these things from them.
It’s funny because folks keep saying this over and over: they say it at the polls, in voting booths, at primaries, and you don’t listen. There’s this fantasy that if only we could educate the 50% of Americans who are irremediable shitheads, they’d change their minds. No. They won’t. Only generational turnover can fix this issue. We wait for them to die out until we can outnumber them at voting booths. There’s no other practical option. Unless you have another pandemic up your sleeve?
Corporations are evil, of course. And no one is debating that evil entities seek to lie and cheat their way into power. But falling for self-serving lies makes you culpable.
Are Israeli soldiers not guilty because they follow orders and believe propaganda? You think that’s an excuse?
“Oh, someone told me to think and behave terribly, and I didn’t know any better.”
That is not an excuse. Pollution is bad. Electing narcissists is bad. Denying science is bad. You could argue human nature is fundamentally twisted and selfish, but that would still make those who endorse cruel and stupid ideologies blameworthy.
Correct. For all practical purposes, most human beings are just animals — scared, stupid, and impulsive. You live in their world. They outnumber you 10 to 1. So vote in their elections, or don’t. But don't call them disenfranchised. There’s nothing disenfranchised about those shitbags driving $70k pickup trucks eating meat at every meal. At best they’re complicit, at worst little more than zombies.
As for the survey you just cited, try this. Put out a poll asking:
“Do you want to save the rainforest?”
My guess is 90% will answer yes. Now ask:
“Would you be willing to stop eating cows to save the rainforest?”
2% might answer yes.
That’s why people elect politicians who act against their best interests: because their best interests and their ugliest desires often misalign.
The EPA can’t fine anyone precisely because Americans overwhelmingly support ecological depredation and overconsumption. Read the political data! Almost nobody wants the EPA to “fine Exxon into bankruptcy.” A lukewarm slap on the wrist is barely justifiable to most Americans, who demand cheap gas, are falling over themselves to sacrifice the future of their children for cheap gas. It’s a political demand yodeled from the mountaintops.
And you want, what, the EPA — the EPA that belongs to these animals — to fine the large corporations that also belong to these same animals?
That makes absolutely zero sense.
Again, the government serves those who give it power. For years this has been the voters of this country, and they have made their wishes loud and clear, repeatedly.
Americans buy big dirty trucks and oppose public transportation. They defend the existence of the multinational corporations that depredate their environment and poison the air and water. They eat the meat of tortured animals. They absolutely don’t give a flying fuck about the future of their children, let alone humanity. And you want to tell me they’re not responsible? Give me a break. Old people are many things — poisoned by lead, delusional, ignorant — but innocent is not among them. Everyone who voted for Trump or Bush, everyone who failed to make the modicum of effort required to support people like Bernie, they’re all to blame.
Never let anyone tell you that Americans didn’t choose this outcome. They did. It was presented to them, they were told the consequences and they chose it. And unless you’re a vegan who votes in every election and doesn’t own a car, you’re probably not so innocent either. My pity is reserved for the children and animals who will inherit this poisoned world — the only creatures who are genuinely blameless.
For better or worse, the vast majority of Americans are lazy amoral ignoramuses who worship wealth, fashion, and power. These are their politics. This is their world. What choice do you have except to vote in their elections? Unless you have another pandemic up your sleeve to thin their ranks, idk what choice you think you have except surrender, violence, and/or voting.
·4 months ago
·4 months ago
·4 months ago
This is the most fucked-in-the-head bullshit I’ve read today. Thanks.