• GarbageShoot [he/him]
    ·
    1 year ago

    Yeah, obviously it's a glorified puppet state but there's no point in arguing from that standpoint here. If a country is to exist, it should know about local air traffic, that's all I'm saying.

    • ProxyTheAwesome [comrade/them]
      ·
      1 year ago

      It is not to exist. I don’t care about their air borders and I hope China flies wherever they please within Chinese territory like Chinese Taipei

      • GarbageShoot [he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        The PRC wants a peaceful reunification, which would not be aided by them continuously flying military jets over the island. I, too, would prefer peaceful reunification, which means some level of cooperation and tolerance is necessary.

        • ProxyTheAwesome [comrade/them]
          ·
          1 year ago

          It's going to require might and pressure and gunboat diplomacy, it's denial and liberalism to pretend colonialists just give up their holdings

          • GarbageShoot [he/him]
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            The RoC won't give up their holdings in the interest of human benefit, but liberalism shows us that there are countless ways to skin a cat. The RoC is not autarkic and is very dependent on its NATO friends and its trading partners. As the US wanes and third world nations stand up, the support for Taiwanese nationalism will surely dwindle, and RoC leadership may be put in a position where their best offer is clearly to reunify.

      • GarbageShoot [he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        I started writing out a timeline but I don't know what position you're asking from so I will say for the sake of brevity that the US kept the KMT from being run out of all of China so that the US could us the island as a threat against China -- as it also attempted to do in Korea when it had more-or-less complete control of the southern half. Taiwan spent about 40 years as a military dictatorship killing tens of thousands of dissidents, native Formosans, and others (this was called the "White Terror"), while their patron the US looked the other way while it pumped resources into the country (for the ruling class, mind you) to use the island as a sweatshop site in the interim. This legacy and its connections to fellow US puppet South Korea and US ally Japan go a long way to explaining its current capacity in manufacturing, which make up its other value to the US besides geographical position.

        Both Taiwan and SK have made various attempts to assert themselves (with some success in both cases), but with the pathetic diplomatic position of the former and the continued military occupation of the latter by the US, I think "puppet state" is a fair title for them, perhaps as much as Israel, but that's its own can of worms.

        I didn't really intend on getting into litigating this topic, but I'm happy to discuss it as best I can.

        • StalinForTime [comrade/them]
          ·
          1 year ago

          Not only did the US turn a blind eye to the White Terror, but they were positively gleeful about it, as a key target of it was of course not only indigeneous-politics based, but fundamentally anti-communist.

          Indeed a basic presupposition of the US providing you such extensive economic support, as a forward base in Asia against communism, is that you crush any opposition to its 'proper' functioning as such an economic and military asset. That supposes that you will crush any radical, labor, trade-union, let alone explicitly socialist or communist activity which appears to challenge the state.

        • randint@lemm.ee
          ·
          1 year ago

          I started writing out a timeline but I don't know what position you're asking from so I will say for the sake of brevity that the US kept the KMT from being run out of all of China [...] which make up its other value to the US besides geographical position.

          Yes, I know about its not-so-glorious past and the White Terror. Thousands of innocent civilians were killed. It was terrible. However, I must respectfully disagree with you on the "puppet state" part. I don't think that Taiwan is a puppet state. The US sponsoring Taiwan is a thing of the past. Neither is a pathetic diplomatic position a good reason for being a puppet state.

          • silent_water [she/her]
            ·
            1 year ago

            if US support dropped overnight, reunification with the mainland would become inevitable. it's a puppet state in the sense that it's propped up by the might of the US/NATO military.

          • GarbageShoot [he/him]
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            I didn't see this reply before. The other commenter has it right that the relevance of its pathetic diplomatic position is that it is being propped up by the US/NATO and ultimately depends on them to exist apart from the PRC, which makes it very difficult to oppose them. Incidentally, does the US not sponsor Taiwan? Even just recently there was this, which sure seems like sponsorship to me.

            • randint@lemm.ee
              ·
              1 year ago

              Apparently being sponsored by a foreign state is now counted as being a puppet state?

              • GarbageShoot [he/him]
                ·
                1 year ago

                That part was in response to you saying:

                The US sponsoring Taiwan is a thing of the past

                I could have formatted it better, but the rest was focused on the puppet part and then I prefaced the sponsorship part with "Incidentally" to indicate changing over to an adjacent subject.

      • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        Taiwan is a rump state of the despotism that existed before the Maoist revolution. When the government fled to the island, the US backed them up and prevented the revolution from purging them from power and uniting the whole country under one flag. They exist today as they are because of western intervention, and is therefore a puppet state. I disagree with 'glorified' considering it's taboo internationally to even call them a state.