Ten Chinese air force aircraft entered Taiwan's air defence zone on Wednesday accompanying five Chinese warships engaged in "combat readiness" patrols, the island's defence ministry said, the second such incursion this week.
My dude calls people statists but then also cites death tolls spouted by the US State department on Mao's casualties is a level of mental gymnastics that may finally dethrone the Maga morons.
I'm sure there's some explanation for how Mao killed 100,000,000 people but somehow the population of China went up and the life expectancy doubled under him. It can't be because the US stat dept. exaggerated the deaths by an exponent tho.
For just the British Empire in India, similar excess death accounting leads to a death toll of 1.8 billion (and $45 trillion stolen): https://mronline.org/2019/01/15/britain-robbed-india-of-45-trillion-thence-1-8-billion-indians-died-from-deprivation/
You have it wrong. The Communist Party isnt producing billionaires or getting rich through corruption (at least not in the recent decade of anti corruption). Billionaires join the CPC for THEIR benefit, clout and image.
China is the only country that actually punishes billionaires for their crimes instead of giving them a slap on the wrist, house arrest or just straight up not punishing them. China executes billionaires when they commit a crime. Liu Han ordered a Mafia hit on a villager who protested one of his illegal real estate expansions, as well as a business rival. He was executed for murder. China is the only country in the world that would sentence someone worth $40 billion, let alone to death, let alone not given a presidential pardon. Jack Ma regularly oversteps and gets punished by the CPC.
The only billionaire the west has executed is Jeff Epstein (for entirely the wrong reasons). China's executed 14+ in the last decade.
If there was a snap election todaty in China with 100% voter turnout, the Communist Party would be re-elected tonight. The party responsible for improving the lives for 1.4 billion people actually isn't disliked in China. The Chinese are not without grievances with the government but literally no other political system in the world has matched Chinese progress over the last 70 years. The average Chinese person isn't unaware of western Liberal democracy, it simply isn't appealing. A system that's basically a popularity contest that elects senile old men, cowboy actors and reality TV stars that have no business being statesmen is actually not a good system. Having lifetime appointed judges to interpret the words of long dead slave owners is not a good system. Having a leadership spill and a change of prime minister every year is not a good system. We can improve on freedom of expression, sure, but the Chinese people aren't sheep who need to be liberated. Neoliberalism is the failure in the world, not the Chinese model.
Billionaires join the CPC for THEIR benefit, clout and image.
Yeah that's how it works in a fascist system. The wealthy join the ruling party and gain connections to other wealthy people so they can all become wealthier.
The existence of billionaires in China indicates that China is not communist. If it were communist the wealth of the billionaires would be seized and redistributed to the people. China is a country where billionaires are legal and labour unions are illegal.
And your obsession with executions is indicative devaluing life. And it's interesting that you buy into the conspiracy that Epstein was killed to silence him but haven't considered the possibility that executions happen in China for the same reason.
If there was a snap election todaty in China with 100% voter turnout, the Communist Party would be re-elected tonight.
Then why isn't there an election? Why aren't opposition parties allowed in China? If the CCP would easily win an election, why not have them?
It's because China is fascist. I think you're confusing fascism with corporatism. They're not at all the same. in fascism there's a hierachy and corporations benefit by falling in line with the hierarchy. Winnie Xi Pooh (who shouldn't even be leader, but pesky rules bout term limits don't apply to autocrats) is at the top. Questioning his authority gets you executed. The leadership of China is most certainly misogynistic. The propaganda in China is all about century of humiliation kind of things. China is anti-democracy. These are all the properties of a fascist system.
And yeah fascists will lie about being left wing. See "National Socialism".
Billionaires exist as a necessary evil, they're not deities like they are to the west like Gates or Bezos, or a pillar of power like Russian oligarchs. China may not be Marxist as it is, but to completely cut away from the rest of the globe would be suicide. Market socialism relies on being a necessary part of the global economy, and China being able to manufacture in it's current state while being able to raise the conditions of the proletariat makes it either the worst socialist state or the best capitalist state. Neither is worth of the vitriol it has received. If they must exist, better they exist for the benefit of the people rather than own media companies that push right wing agenda.
The fixation with executions comes from the accusation that billionaires are in charge. It they truly were, they wouldn't be subject to the same laws as the common folk, and yet herr they are. Unlike Russia or the west, they are held accountable for their actions to a higher degree. All else equal, the CPC treats billionaires worse than any other form of government, and that's not a bad thing.
For your second point re: elections:
Why? The US doesn't even have free elections, an electoral college overrules pupular vote, nor does the UK, the king and house of Lords aren't subject to democracy. The Soviets had a free election in 91, voted to remain socialist,nand it was hijacked by the west. Allende was democratically elected and the west supported the usurper. An election while liberalism exists is just inviting interference. Taiwan didn't have elections for 4 decades and were still beloved by liberalss. The house of Saud doesn't have elections, did 9/11 and is a close US ally.
If the outcome is obvious, why waste time and resources to indulge western sensibilities, as if bourgeoisie democracy is a human norm, when you can skip that step and move on with increasing society? If it just leads to a Chinese Jan 6th, or worse, why would that possibly be on the table? The CPC would win and somehow the losers would obtain US military grade weapons and seize power. And even if there were no interference and the CPC won anyway, guess what? Every paper in the west would claim it was rigged.
Ren Zhengfei, the CEO of Huawei, has had people arrested and thrown into a dungeon. Billionaires here don't have that level of power.
You keep imagining yourself as some communist revolutionary, but you're just another useful idiot that's been fooled by fascist propaganda.
You should know that fascists are liars and will even label themselves as "communist" if it furthers their goals of acquiring power.
After the ruling party of China did the Tiananmen Square massacre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre) and got away with it, they shifted to being fascist thugs whose only goal was to maintain and expand their power.
If you're gonna support fascist thugs, at least be honest about who they are. You look really silly otherwise.
Source? Zhengfei couldn't even keep his own daughter out of prison. Xi has been the one to crack down on billionaires (part of why a lot of my family like him better than Hu) so if it happened ages ago, I don't remember. Even so, he's less wealthy than Jack Ma, who is subject to the CPC's rules, not vice versa.
All I know is the CPC has done more for the working class, lifted more workers out of poverty than any of the government's that have earned your respect.
If all they wanted to do post 1989 was to maintain and expand power why the fuck haven't they? Mongolia is right there, the Qing annexed it, the ROC annexed it, but the PRC can't? Why forgive loans for Africa?
Why exempt Tibetans and Uyghurs and Mongolians from the One Child Policy? What kind of fascism does population control on the Han majority but not the minorities in their country?
If the goal was to acquire power, there are dozens of regimes that have done a better job at seizing absolute power, but instead the CPC open up more? The Juche government of the DPRK has absolute power, why didn't China cloister itself from the world like pre Deng? Or start proxy wars in foreign countries to push nationalist jingoism?
I support my countrymen, no fascist thugs. If you've ever been to China you'd know it's not some Orwellian nightmare state. Listening to the media's portrayal of China when they lie or twist the truth on just about anything else is the brain worm talking. China's fascist like Saddam has WMDs.
Think about where you've gotten your conception of China from and question whether or not they're biased. You're talking to someone with first hand experience in China.
I think you make some excellent points and I was glad to read much of what you wrote. If you don't mind, I am curious about how concerned you are about the points raised above regarding women in positions of power and Xi's unprecedented (to my knowledge) third term?
I'm not an expert on the gender dynamics of the political system, so it's something I'll have to look into, but to address the term limits thing, I kinda have to explain how the political system of the PRC works.
The way the President of China is decided is on the system of the People's Congress. Starting from the lowest, most local level (will refer to as level 1), grassroots civilians will elect a congress representing the village/town. Larger populations elect people to a congress representing whole smaller cities, municipal districts or a county. This is level 2. Then for level 3, it's a congress for cities and prefectures. Level 4 is a congress for provinces and autonomous regions. Level 5 is the National People's Congress.
Depending on where you live and how populated, as a grassroots/civilian voter level, you elect someone to level 1 (more rural areas) or 2 (cities). Then, candidates from 1 & 2 elect someone among them to move up to level 3, level 3 select someone among them to move up to level 4, and so on. Its not possible to "skip" levels, you can't get elected into a position of power unless you've held a lesser position of power and was competent enough for your equals deem you worthy of advancing. Level 5, the National People's Congress consisting of around 3000 delegates, then elects the Central Committee for the PRC as well as the President of China by majority vote. The move to abolish term limits was put forth and passed by the National People's Congress. They must have thought it was inconsequential, or it was more important to consolidate power during rising tensions with the west. Whatever the reason, this did not increase the powers of the office of President. If it was a malicious power grab by Xi, this was a poorly done one since General Secretary (the leader of the executive branch of government) had no term limits to begin with and holds more power (for reference, Deng Xiaoping was never President, but served 3 terms as General Secretary but was the most influential man in China during his active years)
Now, term limits in and of themselves aren't necessarily good or bad. They were never in the original constitution of the PRC to begin with, were added I believe in the 80's and abolished in 2018 since its effectiveness is questionable. German Chancellor's have no term limits, nor most countries with Prime Ministers.
They Chinese people are a great people and deserve a better government than the fascist regime lead by Winnie Xi Pooh.
“I am totally not racist, I love the chinese people. I just love endlessly repeating that their leader is a yellow bear! funny, right?”
Idk how to tell you this, but the CPC and the Chinese state have like 90% approval from the Chinese people according to western academic sources beloved by libs.
What a useless definition. It doesn't even consider the class character of fascism.
Authoritarian is a useless word. It literally could be used to describe any state.
China is actually highly democratic, but that would require expanding your bourgeois ideas about democracy and understanding how their system actually works in practice.
Misogyny is a problem everywhere and is in no way unique to fascism or any political economy, is predates capitalism by thousands of years. I agree it should be abolished, and that is what socialism aspires to do. But the idea that it can be eliminated by flipping a switch is idealist and unrealistic. There is plenty of truth to the critique that patriarchy still exists in China, but the PRC has maybe also done more than any other state to end some of the most oppressive forms of misogyny, for the most number of women, in history.
Propaganda about past grievances? That is too vague to be meaningful either. Some past grievances, like the Japanese war crimes in China, are legitimate. Others, like conspiracies about "judeo-bolshevism" are not. The term "propaganda" here is loaded too, like if the US government does its best to bury its history of chattel slavery (like it is doing in florida, for instance), would it be "propaganda about past grievances" to fight back against that? Would you tell the grandchild of a slave in Florida that by spreading information as wide as possible to the people about the crime of slavery it is somehow fascist? it makes no sense
If you're living in a place where they will drive over you with a tank if you protest the rulers, you're living in an authoritarian state. This isn't exacltly a subtle thing.
Misogyny is a problem everywhere and is in no way unique to fascism or any political economy, is predates capitalism by thousands of years.
I'm not talking about a few weird comments here and there. I'm talking about the ruling class in China raping women and getting away with it because it's considered ok for the rulers to rape women in their society. Because it's a fascist society. Communism is supposed to espouse equality between men and women. But China isn't communist anymore.
Propaganda about past grievances? That is too vague to be meaningful either.
"Century of humiliation! We must allow strongman Xi to rule over us for as long he wants to fight back against the westerners trying to humiliate us!"
This is standard fascist propaganda, fear of outsiders, citing past grievances as a reason for needing a strongman ruler.
In reality it's the CCP is humiliating the Chinese people. It's a garbage government. The people of China deserve better.
Chinese citizens unquestionably deserve more than to listen to a Canadian propagandist instruct us on how to run our country. But we need not for any Western false sympathy. Additionally, Canadians are outsiders yourselves in the eyes of indigenous people, and Canada has taken part in imperialist wars. It is likely that you will join the US in the future to degrade the Third World, including my own nation.
Please refrain from claiming to comprehend anything about communism or China.
My dude calls people statists but then also cites death tolls spouted by the US State department on Mao's casualties is a level of mental gymnastics that may finally dethrone the Maga morons.
I'm sure there's some explanation for how Mao killed 100,000,000 people but somehow the population of China went up and the life expectancy doubled under him. It can't be because the US stat dept. exaggerated the deaths by an exponent tho.
这个老外真过瘾，哈哈
we need a victims of capitalism death toll that counts people who weren't born in the total.
For just the British Empire in India, similar excess death accounting leads to a death toll of 1.8 billion (and $45 trillion stolen): https://mronline.org/2019/01/15/britain-robbed-india-of-45-trillion-thence-1-8-billion-indians-died-from-deprivation/
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Didnt take long for the nafo chud to bust out the racism, did it?
How is it racism to say Chinese people are great people?
It's just their government sucks. They deserve better.
I'm excited to hear you explain how comparing a Chinese man to a cartoon character with yellow skin and beady eyes isn't racist
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Xi is Chinese you dipshit, you are comparing a Chinese man to a cartoon character with yellow skin and beady eyes. Please, continue.
Removed by mod
The Chinese people chose and support their government, knock off the white saviour act.
I know we are a great people. I am Chinese.
You have it wrong. The Communist Party isnt producing billionaires or getting rich through corruption (at least not in the recent decade of anti corruption). Billionaires join the CPC for THEIR benefit, clout and image.
China is the only country that actually punishes billionaires for their crimes instead of giving them a slap on the wrist, house arrest or just straight up not punishing them. China executes billionaires when they commit a crime. Liu Han ordered a Mafia hit on a villager who protested one of his illegal real estate expansions, as well as a business rival. He was executed for murder. China is the only country in the world that would sentence someone worth $40 billion, let alone to death, let alone not given a presidential pardon. Jack Ma regularly oversteps and gets punished by the CPC.
The only billionaire the west has executed is Jeff Epstein (for entirely the wrong reasons). China's executed 14+ in the last decade.
If there was a snap election todaty in China with 100% voter turnout, the Communist Party would be re-elected tonight. The party responsible for improving the lives for 1.4 billion people actually isn't disliked in China. The Chinese are not without grievances with the government but literally no other political system in the world has matched Chinese progress over the last 70 years. The average Chinese person isn't unaware of western Liberal democracy, it simply isn't appealing. A system that's basically a popularity contest that elects senile old men, cowboy actors and reality TV stars that have no business being statesmen is actually not a good system. Having lifetime appointed judges to interpret the words of long dead slave owners is not a good system. Having a leadership spill and a change of prime minister every year is not a good system. We can improve on freedom of expression, sure, but the Chinese people aren't sheep who need to be liberated. Neoliberalism is the failure in the world, not the Chinese model.
Yeah that's how it works in a fascist system. The wealthy join the ruling party and gain connections to other wealthy people so they can all become wealthier.
The existence of billionaires in China indicates that China is not communist. If it were communist the wealth of the billionaires would be seized and redistributed to the people. China is a country where billionaires are legal and labour unions are illegal.
And your obsession with executions is indicative devaluing life. And it's interesting that you buy into the conspiracy that Epstein was killed to silence him but haven't considered the possibility that executions happen in China for the same reason.
Then why isn't there an election? Why aren't opposition parties allowed in China? If the CCP would easily win an election, why not have them?
It's because China is fascist. I think you're confusing fascism with corporatism. They're not at all the same. in fascism there's a hierachy and corporations benefit by falling in line with the hierarchy. Winnie Xi Pooh (who shouldn't even be leader, but pesky rules bout term limits don't apply to autocrats) is at the top. Questioning his authority gets you executed. The leadership of China is most certainly misogynistic. The propaganda in China is all about century of humiliation kind of things. China is anti-democracy. These are all the properties of a fascist system.
And yeah fascists will lie about being left wing. See "National Socialism".
Billionaires exist as a necessary evil, they're not deities like they are to the west like Gates or Bezos, or a pillar of power like Russian oligarchs. China may not be Marxist as it is, but to completely cut away from the rest of the globe would be suicide. Market socialism relies on being a necessary part of the global economy, and China being able to manufacture in it's current state while being able to raise the conditions of the proletariat makes it either the worst socialist state or the best capitalist state. Neither is worth of the vitriol it has received. If they must exist, better they exist for the benefit of the people rather than own media companies that push right wing agenda.
The fixation with executions comes from the accusation that billionaires are in charge. It they truly were, they wouldn't be subject to the same laws as the common folk, and yet herr they are. Unlike Russia or the west, they are held accountable for their actions to a higher degree. All else equal, the CPC treats billionaires worse than any other form of government, and that's not a bad thing.
For your second point re: elections: Why? The US doesn't even have free elections, an electoral college overrules pupular vote, nor does the UK, the king and house of Lords aren't subject to democracy. The Soviets had a free election in 91, voted to remain socialist,nand it was hijacked by the west. Allende was democratically elected and the west supported the usurper. An election while liberalism exists is just inviting interference. Taiwan didn't have elections for 4 decades and were still beloved by liberalss. The house of Saud doesn't have elections, did 9/11 and is a close US ally.
If the outcome is obvious, why waste time and resources to indulge western sensibilities, as if bourgeoisie democracy is a human norm, when you can skip that step and move on with increasing society? If it just leads to a Chinese Jan 6th, or worse, why would that possibly be on the table? The CPC would win and somehow the losers would obtain US military grade weapons and seize power. And even if there were no interference and the CPC won anyway, guess what? Every paper in the west would claim it was rigged.
Ren Zhengfei, the CEO of Huawei, has had people arrested and thrown into a dungeon. Billionaires here don't have that level of power.
You keep imagining yourself as some communist revolutionary, but you're just another useful idiot that's been fooled by fascist propaganda.
You should know that fascists are liars and will even label themselves as "communist" if it furthers their goals of acquiring power.
After the ruling party of China did the Tiananmen Square massacre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre) and got away with it, they shifted to being fascist thugs whose only goal was to maintain and expand their power.
If you're gonna support fascist thugs, at least be honest about who they are. You look really silly otherwise.
Source? Zhengfei couldn't even keep his own daughter out of prison. Xi has been the one to crack down on billionaires (part of why a lot of my family like him better than Hu) so if it happened ages ago, I don't remember. Even so, he's less wealthy than Jack Ma, who is subject to the CPC's rules, not vice versa.
All I know is the CPC has done more for the working class, lifted more workers out of poverty than any of the government's that have earned your respect.
If all they wanted to do post 1989 was to maintain and expand power why the fuck haven't they? Mongolia is right there, the Qing annexed it, the ROC annexed it, but the PRC can't? Why forgive loans for Africa?
Why exempt Tibetans and Uyghurs and Mongolians from the One Child Policy? What kind of fascism does population control on the Han majority but not the minorities in their country?
If the goal was to acquire power, there are dozens of regimes that have done a better job at seizing absolute power, but instead the CPC open up more? The Juche government of the DPRK has absolute power, why didn't China cloister itself from the world like pre Deng? Or start proxy wars in foreign countries to push nationalist jingoism?
I support my countrymen, no fascist thugs. If you've ever been to China you'd know it's not some Orwellian nightmare state. Listening to the media's portrayal of China when they lie or twist the truth on just about anything else is the brain worm talking. China's fascist like Saddam has WMDs.
Think about where you've gotten your conception of China from and question whether or not they're biased. You're talking to someone with first hand experience in China.
I think you make some excellent points and I was glad to read much of what you wrote. If you don't mind, I am curious about how concerned you are about the points raised above regarding women in positions of power and Xi's unprecedented (to my knowledge) third term?
I'm not an expert on the gender dynamics of the political system, so it's something I'll have to look into, but to address the term limits thing, I kinda have to explain how the political system of the PRC works.
The way the President of China is decided is on the system of the People's Congress. Starting from the lowest, most local level (will refer to as level 1), grassroots civilians will elect a congress representing the village/town. Larger populations elect people to a congress representing whole smaller cities, municipal districts or a county. This is level 2. Then for level 3, it's a congress for cities and prefectures. Level 4 is a congress for provinces and autonomous regions. Level 5 is the National People's Congress.
Depending on where you live and how populated, as a grassroots/civilian voter level, you elect someone to level 1 (more rural areas) or 2 (cities). Then, candidates from 1 & 2 elect someone among them to move up to level 3, level 3 select someone among them to move up to level 4, and so on. Its not possible to "skip" levels, you can't get elected into a position of power unless you've held a lesser position of power and was competent enough for your equals deem you worthy of advancing. Level 5, the National People's Congress consisting of around 3000 delegates, then elects the Central Committee for the PRC as well as the President of China by majority vote. The move to abolish term limits was put forth and passed by the National People's Congress. They must have thought it was inconsequential, or it was more important to consolidate power during rising tensions with the west. Whatever the reason, this did not increase the powers of the office of President. If it was a malicious power grab by Xi, this was a poorly done one since General Secretary (the leader of the executive branch of government) had no term limits to begin with and holds more power (for reference, Deng Xiaoping was never President, but served 3 terms as General Secretary but was the most influential man in China during his active years)
Now, term limits in and of themselves aren't necessarily good or bad. They were never in the original constitution of the PRC to begin with, were added I believe in the 80's and abolished in 2018 since its effectiveness is questionable. German Chancellor's have no term limits, nor most countries with Prime Ministers.
where do you even get this nonsense from?
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also, ew, nafo
NAFO fascist
Damn, you figured out that I'm part of a super secret intelligence agency.
Now I'll have to go to the safehouse, get plastic surgery to change my appearance, dye my hair, burn off my finger prints, get new passports.
Again! How does this keep happening?
ERROR! Does not compute.
Please submit pictures of your penis to /c/chapotraphouse to proceed.
I'm sorry my camera doesn't have a panoramic mode.
Idk how to tell you this, but the CPC and the Chinese state have like 90% approval from the Chinese people according to western academic sources beloved by libs.
Can you please for the sake of our understanding, give your definition of the word 'fascism'?
Authoritarian and anti-democracy, characterized by misogyny, propaganda about past grievances.
China ticks all the boxes. It's definitely not communist anymore because billionaires exist there.
What a useless definition. It doesn't even consider the class character of fascism.
Authoritarian is a useless word. It literally could be used to describe any state.
China is actually highly democratic, but that would require expanding your bourgeois ideas about democracy and understanding how their system actually works in practice.
Misogyny is a problem everywhere and is in no way unique to fascism or any political economy, is predates capitalism by thousands of years. I agree it should be abolished, and that is what socialism aspires to do. But the idea that it can be eliminated by flipping a switch is idealist and unrealistic. There is plenty of truth to the critique that patriarchy still exists in China, but the PRC has maybe also done more than any other state to end some of the most oppressive forms of misogyny, for the most number of women, in history.
Propaganda about past grievances? That is too vague to be meaningful either. Some past grievances, like the Japanese war crimes in China, are legitimate. Others, like conspiracies about "judeo-bolshevism" are not. The term "propaganda" here is loaded too, like if the US government does its best to bury its history of chattel slavery (like it is doing in florida, for instance), would it be "propaganda about past grievances" to fight back against that? Would you tell the grandchild of a slave in Florida that by spreading information as wide as possible to the people about the crime of slavery it is somehow fascist? it makes no sense
If you're living in a place where they will drive over you with a tank if you protest the rulers, you're living in an authoritarian state. This isn't exacltly a subtle thing.
I'm not talking about a few weird comments here and there. I'm talking about the ruling class in China raping women and getting away with it because it's considered ok for the rulers to rape women in their society. Because it's a fascist society. Communism is supposed to espouse equality between men and women. But China isn't communist anymore.
"Century of humiliation! We must allow strongman Xi to rule over us for as long he wants to fight back against the westerners trying to humiliate us!"
This is standard fascist propaganda, fear of outsiders, citing past grievances as a reason for needing a strongman ruler.
In reality it's the CCP is humiliating the Chinese people. It's a garbage government. The people of China deserve better.
"The people of China deserve better. Good thing they have me to decide for them"
You either made up stuff, or never really addressed my points, so I am going to have to refer you to this insightful guide.
Every human on the planet deserves better than living under a fascist regime. Chinese people included.
Supporting the CCP is supporting fascism. Sorry if that breaks immersion on your little communist revolutionary LARPing sessions.
Under your definition, nearly every person is living under fascism. That is why it is meaningless
Support the Dominion of Canada is supporting fascism. Sorry if that breaks immersion on your little liberal sessions.
Wow they ran someone over with a tank!? When did that happen? Poor guy!
More than one person. Thousands.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre
If you're in China, that link may not work for you.
Fake ass propaganda.
I am from Beijing and one of my parents participated in the protest, people came back home safely.
Stop lying to people's face.
Chinese citizens unquestionably deserve more than to listen to a Canadian propagandist instruct us on how to run our country. But we need not for any Western false sympathy. Additionally, Canadians are outsiders yourselves in the eyes of indigenous people, and Canada has taken part in imperialist wars. It is likely that you will join the US in the future to degrade the Third World, including my own nation.
Please refrain from claiming to comprehend anything about communism or China.
Fuck liberal democracy.