Did I say you were a fascist? I said that anti-communism leaves the door open to fascists. And I said that ideologically vulgar anti-communism is the underpinning of fascism. These are both true. If you make your community about anti-communism, fascists will come. And fascism gains power when the capitalist class is in crisis and chooses a less profitable closed society that keeps the left in check rather than see their power realistically challenged.
You can laugh all you want at easily researched facts but they're still true. China. I'll edit when I find one for the USSR that isn't a lecture or a book, but in the meantime reflect on how they went from feudal farmers to the first people in space within a generation Oh. And they did it without the stolen wealth of entire continents in the southern hemisphere.
Only because they saw Germany as a threat. You do realise they still put gay people in camps, right? That they deported entire ethnic groups they didn't like? They were only marginally better than the Nazis.
There's your mask off, peanut gallery. This is literal holocaust denial you're seeing. You opened the door to fascists and they're among you. You're defederating on the ideological grounds of anti-communism with the stated motivation of making it more of a safe place for queer voices. You're inviting in the kind of people who want us dead.
There it is! Yes they saw Germany as a threat to their existence because Hitler wanted to genocide them. The west saw the Nazis as an opportunity to destroy the first socialist project.
You understand how you're doing apologia for Nazis now?
So the arrest and torture of Jewish doctors under Stalin's rule never happened apparently. And he never murdered Solomon Mikhoels because of his antisemitic paranoia apparently. And religious Jews were never pathologised and forcibly converted to atheism apparently.
Good to see you live in a fairytale land where everything about your favourite dictator is a CIA lie or whatever.
Naziism is still alive and well as an ideology, unfortunately. And the Allies helped defeat Naziism too (for their own self interested reasons too) so it's not like the USSR should be accredited with defeating an entire ideology
Oh so the USSR fighting Nazis because they faced annihilation is somehow less than the allies begrudging support for them because they ultimately agreed with the Nazis ideologically but feared their destabilizing effect on global capital?
FFS you people are so cowardly. You can't just come out and say you think the Nazis were fine for combating communism because that is unpopular so you go through all these mental gymnastics.
You can't just come out and say you think the Nazis were fine for combating communism because that is unpopular so you go through all these mental gymnastics.
Stop putting words in my mouth you little shit, you KNOW I don't think that.
You do realise they still put gay people in camps, right? That they deported entire ethnic groups they didn't like? They were only marginally better than the Nazis.
Are you describing the western allies? Shit sucked back then from all directions for LGBT people. The United States genocide of indigenous people directly inspired the holocaust, Lebensraum was the european spinoff of "manifest destiny"
You just were like "what about their treatment of gay people" I'm just pointing out the allies were shit too, and worse in a lot of other ways including genocide
Whataboutism is when you provide historical context.
"The USSR was uniquely evil"
"They weren't unique in any way and in fact compared to their contemporaries they were oftentimes better"
"Comparing one thing to another thing in order to evaluate it? That's whataboutism!"
He would actually put me in a gulag for being queer, an anarchist, and an Esperantist; but if historical revisionism is what helps you sleep at night, you do you.
Maybe anarchists shouldn't have murdered Bolsheviks and attempted to enact terror plots against the Soviet Union and they wouldn't have gotten liquidated by the USSR?
It's funny how you use the word "murder" to describe the anarchists' killing and then switch to a euphemism ("liquidate") the second you talk about the USSR's killing.
Liquidate doesn't refer to murder though. Liquidation means to dissolve or disband political organisations, which is what I was referring to.
If you think that I'm euphemising the fact that the Red Army destroyed the Black Army then your implicit bias is showing because they were at war with one another. Murder isn't something that is applied to enemy armies which have engaged one another in war. I'm not complaining about the Black Army killing Bolsheviks in war. That's what happens.
I'm talking about literal extrajudicial murders of Bolsheviks by the Makhnovist secret police.
Edit:
I forgot that I'm talking to an anarchist.
Sources:
Nestor Makhno in the Russian Civil War by Malet, pp. 51-52, 103-104, and 129. Before you say it, here's Malet in his own words in the preface:
It will be clear from the book that the author has some sympathy with Makhno and his ideals, but he trusts that this has not led to gross distortion or untruth.
Kontrrazvedka: The Story of the Makhnovist Intelligence Service by Azarov, pp 32-33 but there's plenty more in there too. Before you say it about him, too:
Azarov was active in the Social-Democratic Party of Ukraine but left that party when its anarchist fractions were expelled.
In 1999 Azarov was one of the founders of the political party “Union of Anarchists of Ukraine” (SAU). At the founding congress Azarov was elected chair of the the chief executive organ of the SAU.
mein freund you are none of those, you post on the internet and watch v*ush (🤮) streams, anarchists irl are jailed and murdered in the west for trying to make the world a better place, would you like a book recommendation?
Also we already did make a part of this reality. We raised twice as much as we had hoped for with the summer fund raiser. We are doing much more.
Holy shit man congratulations, that is some spectacular work to say the least! A huge step on the journey to build a better future in the face of the american empire. You and your comrade's struggle is truly inspirational.
Absolutely! Fuck the lot of them, its just beyond absurdity that some fucking v*ush (🤮) fans whose "praxis" amounts to sitting in front of the computer to watch some state dept. failson assclown parrot imperialist talking points and then nothing else have the utter gall to scoff at the work of people who fight an anti-imperialist struggle for their communities day in and day out, breathing life into liberation theory and carrying the torch of communism's great legacy against all odds so their people may finally be free.
And they fucking dare dismiss the fact that the people they look down on lost ancestors, family and friends, dying in agony because of the white supremacist status quo that they have tied their egoes towards running apologetics for? To call people "tankies lol" because they criticize the country that has a systematic extermination program that kills their loved ones?? What the fuck???
Idk its so unreal, I would not want to come within 500 metres of these sick liberal bastards IRL.
You are, at the very best, a left-com. Get out of your armchair and start building a parallel power structure instead of watching vaush and bashing countries whose existence you can only influence insofar as to urge your congressman to nuke them.
And then he pushed the Doctors' Plot conspiracy theories and had Jews arrested and tortured for crimes they didn't commit, but I guess that didn't happen in your little fantasy land.
Even in Stalin's time there was collective leadership. Misunderstandinga on that subject are caused by a lack of comprehension of the real nature and organisation of the communist party structure. Stalin, although holding wide powers, was merely the captain of the team and it seems obvious that Khrushchev will be the next captain.
Did I say you were a fascist? I said that anti-communism leaves the door open to fascists. And I said that ideologically vulgar anti-communism is the underpinning of fascism. These are both true. If you make your community about anti-communism, fascists will come. And fascism gains power when the capitalist class is in crisis and chooses a less profitable closed society that keeps the left in check rather than see their power realistically challenged.
You can laugh all you want at easily researched facts but they're still true. China. I'll edit when I find one for the USSR that isn't a lecture or a book, but in the meantime reflect on how they went from feudal farmers to the first people in space within a generation
Oh. And they did it without the stolen wealth of entire continents in the southern hemisphere.
Ah yes, because the best way to defeat fascism is to worship dictatorships lead by power-hungry, totalitarian bigots
Hollow buzzwords aside, the Soviet Union literally did defeat fascism.
Only because they saw Germany as a threat. You do realise they still put gay people in camps, right? That they deported entire ethnic groups they didn't like? They were only marginally better than the Nazis.
There's your mask off, peanut gallery. This is literal holocaust denial you're seeing. You opened the door to fascists and they're among you. You're defederating on the ideological grounds of anti-communism with the stated motivation of making it more of a safe place for queer voices. You're inviting in the kind of people who want us dead.
lol it's amazing, yeah the USSR saw Nazis as a threat, the west saw them as an opportunity. AND THEY ARE DEFENDING THE LATTER HOLY FUCKING SHIT.
There it is! Yes they saw Germany as a threat to their existence because Hitler wanted to genocide them. The west saw the Nazis as an opportunity to destroy the first socialist project.
You understand how you're doing apologia for Nazis now?
So the arrest and torture of Jewish doctors under Stalin's rule never happened apparently. And he never murdered Solomon Mikhoels because of his antisemitic paranoia apparently. And religious Jews were never pathologised and forcibly converted to atheism apparently.
Good to see you live in a fairytale land where everything about your favourite dictator is a CIA lie or whatever.
This has literally nothing to do with my reply, even if I took it at face value which I do not.
You're trying so hard to justify supporting literal Nazis.
I really don't get how you think this diminishes the fact that the soviets defeated nazism
Naziism is still alive and well as an ideology, unfortunately. And the Allies helped defeat Naziism too (for their own self interested reasons too) so it's not like the USSR should be accredited with defeating an entire ideology
Oh so the USSR fighting Nazis because they faced annihilation is somehow less than the allies begrudging support for them because they ultimately agreed with the Nazis ideologically but feared their destabilizing effect on global capital?
FFS you people are so cowardly. You can't just come out and say you think the Nazis were fine for combating communism because that is unpopular so you go through all these mental gymnastics.
Stop putting words in my mouth you little shit, you KNOW I don't think that.
I am not putting words in your mouth I am taking your words to their logical conclusion.
I tried to play nice with you people but I'm fucking done with that.
Are you describing the western allies? Shit sucked back then from all directions for LGBT people. The United States genocide of indigenous people directly inspired the holocaust, Lebensraum was the european spinoff of "manifest destiny"
Just because I hate the USSR doesn't mean that I approve of everything the First World did. Cease your whataboutism.
You just were like "what about their treatment of gay people" I'm just pointing out the allies were shit too, and worse in a lot of other ways including genocide
Whataboutism
Yes, you are doing whataboutism, now stop repeating Nazi shit
What about deez nuts fuckin nerd
lmao gottem
Whataboutism is when you provide historical context.
"The USSR was uniquely evil"
"They weren't unique in any way and in fact compared to their contemporaries they were oftentimes better"
"Comparing one thing to another thing in order to evaluate it? That's whataboutism!"
Do better. Educate yourself.
Just so you know, Stalin still loves you.
He would actually put me in a gulag for being queer, an anarchist, and an Esperantist; but if historical revisionism is what helps you sleep at night, you do you.
Unlike in the west 😉.
I'll pray for you.
I'm in a western country and not in jail, so yeah, unlike in the west.
You seem to be temporally confused...
I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but our glorious comrade Stalin died quite some time ago.
Eternal glory to our Great Comrade. He is with us always
Rot in hell you tankie piece of shit
Fuck you fascist scum
Says the redfash
It is the nineteenth of august 2023 and Stalin saved the world from fascism
Maybe anarchists shouldn't have murdered Bolsheviks and attempted to enact terror plots against the Soviet Union and they wouldn't have gotten liquidated by the USSR?
Just sayin'
It's funny how you use the word "murder" to describe the anarchists' killing and then switch to a euphemism ("liquidate") the second you talk about the USSR's killing.
Shows how completely brainwashed you are.
Liquidate doesn't refer to murder though. Liquidation means to dissolve or disband political organisations, which is what I was referring to.
If you think that I'm euphemising the fact that the Red Army destroyed the Black Army then your implicit bias is showing because they were at war with one another. Murder isn't something that is applied to enemy armies which have engaged one another in war. I'm not complaining about the Black Army killing Bolsheviks in war. That's what happens.
I'm talking about literal extrajudicial murders of Bolsheviks by the Makhnovist secret police.
Edit:
I forgot that I'm talking to an anarchist.
Sources: Nestor Makhno in the Russian Civil War by Malet, pp. 51-52, 103-104, and 129. Before you say it, here's Malet in his own words in the preface:
Kontrrazvedka: The Story of the Makhnovist Intelligence Service by Azarov, pp 32-33 but there's plenty more in there too. Before you say it about him, too:
mein freund you are none of those, you post on the internet and watch v*ush (🤮) streams, anarchists irl are jailed and murdered in the west for trying to make the world a better place, would you like a book recommendation?
hey now they haven't jailed me yet!
Death to america, may they never succeed!
Death to Amerikkka indeed.
https://www.gofundme.com/f/chunka-luta-summer-fundraiser
We are going to make this a reality.
We travel the Red Road and if you want to join us you are welcome to dm me.
Also we already did make a part of this reality. We raised twice as much as we had hoped for with the summer fund raiser. We are doing much more.
Holy shit man congratulations, that is some spectacular work to say the least! A huge step on the journey to build a better future in the face of the american empire. You and your comrade's struggle is truly inspirational.
It is disheartening though to see people like the OP and the fact they still retain their position on this instance.
Sungmanitu is an indigenous two spirit comrade and to see folks like them dismissed as "tankies" is hurtful
These people are not our allies or comrades and they need to be called out and ostracized because they are harmful to our goals.
Absolutely! Fuck the lot of them, its just beyond absurdity that some fucking v*ush (🤮) fans whose "praxis" amounts to sitting in front of the computer to watch some state dept. failson assclown parrot imperialist talking points and then nothing else have the utter gall to scoff at the work of people who fight an anti-imperialist struggle for their communities day in and day out, breathing life into liberation theory and carrying the torch of communism's great legacy against all odds so their people may finally be free.
And they fucking dare dismiss the fact that the people they look down on lost ancestors, family and friends, dying in agony because of the white supremacist status quo that they have tied their egoes towards running apologetics for? To call people "tankies lol" because they criticize the country that has a systematic extermination program that kills their loved ones?? What the fuck???
Idk its so unreal, I would not want to come within 500 metres of these sick liberal bastards IRL.
You are, at the very best, a left-com. Get out of your armchair and start building a parallel power structure instead of watching vaush and bashing countries whose existence you can only influence insofar as to urge your congressman to nuke them.
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And then he pushed the Doctors' Plot conspiracy theories and had Jews arrested and tortured for crimes they didn't commit, but I guess that didn't happen in your little fantasy land.
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— CIA documents, 1950s