Holy fuck great start to federation, like just actual semantics trolling. I don't even know what else to call it, you have 0 pushback on the fact you praise dictators, it's actually amazing.
Yeah doesn't doesn't seem like anyone wants to answer.
I had a another comment of my mine in this thread removed, that was just asking if someone who self described as very left supported any AES.
Way more into accusations than answers
What does the word "tankie" mean according to you? Would you consider Nelson Mandela a "tankie" for his support of the Cuban revolution, taking inspiration from Mao while imprisoned on Robben Island, and being thankful towards the Soviet Union for their support in ending apartheid while being the last recipient of the Lenin Peace Prize? Because if so, then I'm sure if I'm welcome here as a socialist South African who will always be grateful for the choices Mandela made...
And before I get accused of brigading, this post appeared on the front page of my all feed. I'll link a screenshot as proof in the spoiler tag below
spoiler
Show
Not replying to anything other than pointing out that at least on my TestFlight version, Memmy properly “hid” the spoiler until I expanded it.
This is a fucking internet website on the internet. Lay off the red dye kid
I wouldn't use the term "x-tard", it's pretty ableist :/ (and something I've had to put up with as an autistic person - honestly it was going away a few years ago but seems to have re-established itself via 4chan's memetic bleedthrough to internet communities).
But I do agree very strongly with the sentiment ., it's nice to have a leftist space on lemmy not overrun by authoritarianism tbh nya
Is criticism of the use of that word against 196's rules? Here are articles from the Chicago Tribune and the Anchorage Press, and a definition from the Cambridge English Dictionary which say:
Taking the R-word and adding "lib" to it doesn't make it any less offensive. And what bothers me is that those who combine "liberal" with that word are not insulting their intended targets — they're insulting an entire group of people who have done nothing wrong, all while perpetuating a term that simply needs to go away.
Combining the R-word with liberal makes it no less offensive.
an offensive word used by some people on the extreme right of politics to refer to someone who holds left-wing political beliefs
While I understand that you're using it ironically, I believe that being critical of the ironic use of offensive language is valid and contributes to discussion. I find it concerning that Nakoichi's post was removed without any explanation other than calling him, "braindead."
Being called a liberal is insulting enough. Most liberals will identify as progressives.
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Claims to not believe in authoritarianism
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Uses their authority to remove all comments that they disagree with
Ironic...
Freedom of association on internet communities go brrrr
Could you link me some examples of this? I haven't been moderating these past couple days, as I've been very busy. These are heavy accusations, as I greatly value the right to discussion so if you can link me to some examples I would be more than happy to restore them and have a stern talking to with my moderators.
I reiterate, please link me some examples so I can correct the behavior of whichever mod is acting out of order
Modlog looks good to me! Maybe you should check our rules it ain't that hard
The pinned post literally called rules, regulations, or why am I banned. That's where the rules are.
Assuming you're asking this in good faith, then here's my response. When I look at this thread, with over 200 comments, I see about 30-50 comments, mostly by Hexbear users, that just say "removed by mod". If every single one of those removed posts contain a racial slur or other banned language, then that's legit. They should be removed. But it's hard to believe all of those dozens of comments all break the rules. It seems much more likely that this is a Reddit-like thread where mass censorship is being applied with a mod-machine-gun. And to reply to your request more specifically, I don't actually know why specific posts were removed, because I can't see them, because they have been removed. Only the mods/admins can see them, and see their reasons for removal. So I'm sorry I can't give you more specific examples. But thank you for taking the matter seriously.
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Are Cuba and Vietnam considered good or bad? Nicaragua? How about the new coup leaders in Burkina Faso, Mali, and Niger? Any successful revolution has demonstrated the necessity of authority, to enforce an ideological will on society and stop the bourgeois class from re-appearing requires authority. Any revolution with be authoritarian, even and especially if it is the oppressed overthrowing the oppressor.
Sure, say you don't like China, the Soviet Union, or the DPRK for your own reasons, but why use a term that encompasses any successful revolution, as even the CNT-FAI was finding a need for things like secret police during the awful times of a revolution.
You should maintain your site culture, but there's a reason anti-communists and fascists use the term tankie as well, it's imprecise and volatile.
Edit: I apologize if this is not a post meant to invite discussion, I just don't see this perspective shared very often in these conversations.
Look I am sure many of those places have done great things, like China's recent wage cuts for rich bankers and pay rises for those lower on the totem pole, a good thing give credit where credit is due. But. How can you possibly remove the Bourgeois then place yourself at the top of the totem pole and not think of yourself as the new Bourgeoisie?
Yes every violent revolution is going to be authoritarian because you have lined people against the wall and you are not going to get every dissenter in the first round and unsurprisingly they are going to be pissed. So now you have a violent government and and a violent opposition, not exactly fun times for everyone stuck in the middle, Which once that happens is not just the liberals as many hexbears use as an insult for everyone not Auth-Left but basically the whole political spectrum that aren't on the far ends.
A benevolent dictatorship is going to be the absolute best form of government you could possibly ever have but. You are never going to have one. The people at the top want to be at the top, and the people who want to be at the top are always going to be bastards.
You think that Authoritarianism is needed to keep the revolution going. Definitely correct if you do it through a coup. I don't want to be under a nation that will silence me or worse because I criticise them. You can call that counter-revolutionary if you like but I would rather have incremental improvements where things get better slowly than everything is worse now and you just got to believe that things will get better, and our leaders plans will all just work out.
Tankie is a slur against Auth-Left. If you are Auth-Left well that's the slur people who don't like you are going to use.
To pivot on what this original post was likely created for (admittedly in a pretty bad way). Hexbear is full of some really crazy people who have very strong opinions and shout memes that make sense in Hexbear but don't really out of it. 90% of Hexbears just seem so unhinged. If I see someone from Hexbear it makes me skittish to actually start a discussion with that person as there is a high chance they are just going to be hostile.
That's a lot but I can try and address some bite size chunks!
Look I am sure many of those places have done great things, like China's recent wage cuts for rich bankers and pay rises for those lower on the totem pole, a good thing give credit where credit is due. But. How can you possibly remove the Bourgeois then place yourself at the top of the totem pole and not think of yourself as the new Bourgeoisie?
While it's true that in China specifically members of the CPC get many benefits in life as a result, the only true safeguard that can prevent this in reality is anti-corruption campaigns, something impossible to do if a simple bourgeois class was in charge. For example, as far as I can understand, Jiang Zemin's represented the "Shanghai Clique", which is very much like this. Shanghai tends to have a culture of liberalism and as a city prides itself on it's liberal approach to things, this is why Shanghai had a uniquely awful COVID lockdown last year as their liberal politics prevented them from doing what was bad for the economy immediately. In China, it's viewed that it's better to have these folks members of the CPC and fuck up sometimes with liberalism rather than allow them to become separatists and fall into enemy hands.
This is why the market policies of Deng's reforms nearly led to the fall of socialism under Jiang Zemin, corruption was admittedly very high and so was the view of CPC members as a sort of "second bourgeois". The only way this has been prevented is with real rollback and anti-corruption campaigns which have happened under Xi's presidency. During this period members of the CPC who have betrayed the common good have been given the kinda sentences they deserve, expulsion from the party and imprisonment or even the death penalty if their decisions allowed for great social harm. I can only link imperfect sources as of now as I don't have the time, but, here's an SCMP topic page on the topic.
To be clear, the only way that the communist party's members of a revolutionary nation can not become a "new bourgeoisie" is through vigorous anti-corruption campaigns, self criticism, and adherence to the mass line (a Democratic line to the people). The point is that it is not a permanent state, so it doesn't have to last forever, just that they have to keep it going for long enough to defeat capital. The CPSU failed at this, but the CPC is currently succeeding, and that's why their socialist nation has not fallen apart.
I'mma do this in mutliple comments as I'm in the shitter and my phone screen isn't that big lmao sorry
Yes every violent revolution is going to be authoritarian because you have lined people against the wall and you are not going to get every dissenter in the first round and unsurprisingly they are going to be pissed. So now you have a violent government and and a violent opposition, not exactly fun times for everyone stuck in the middle, Which once that happens is not just the liberals as many hexbears use as an insult for everyone not Auth-Left but basically the whole political spectrum that aren't on the far ends.
Actually liberal is something with a very precise definition, both inside and out if Marxism. The way we use it at the end of the day comes down to our views on ideology and class, or the "trashcan of ideology". Lenin defined ideology as an unreal thing, a big vague blob of ideas that's hard to pin down but at the end of the day results in the supremacy of one class over another. Liberalism is not merely the adherence to private property, believing in a free market, etc as those can all be very nebulous and have been shown to change in the past, liberalism is at the end of the day the ideology of the supremacy of the bourgeois class. Much in the same way if we still had monarchists or something their ideology would at the end of the day result in the supremacy of the aristocratic class (but scarce few really believe in that anymore).
So even an ideology that does not view itself as liberal, like fascism, would in our eyes be liberal because it is entirely all about the supremacy of the bourgeois class over every other. You may also hear us consider some anarchists as "liberal" as well because their ideas would, at the end of the day, not create something strong enough to truly lead to the liberation of the proletarian and peasant classes. This is not true of all anarchists, and I really appreciate those who are capable of the rigorous self criticism required, but many folks who get their start with radical politics in the global north go from the dominant ideology (liberalism) to something that is revolutionary but not enough to truly challenge the status quo (large swaths of anarchism). This was my path, and I eventually became an ML out of seeing the failure of real life organizations I myself was a member of.
Additionally, yes, most of what you're describing in the first part of this paragraph is a civil war, and those almost always happen when a socialist government comes into charge and always have, it's an unavoidable misery of the change we need immediately. Revolution is a bad and dangerous thing only soothed by the fact it will bring necessary victories to the working class, and there's no way around that.
Tankie is a slur against Auth-Left. If you are Auth-Left well that's the slur people who don't like you are going to use.
This betrays a sense that the political compass is a valid way to view the world. It isn't. The political compass was created by a libertarian as explicit libertarian propaganda, and those guys are more deluded than the LibDems when it comes to political reality. Auth-Left, is uh, not a thing. Nor is Lib-Right. The entire point of socialism as a project and it's historical examples have been to extend the will of the working class; that's the opposite of what "Authoritarian" has come to represent in popular mind. You should ask other hexbears on the history of the political compass as propaganda though, as I can tell you that it's nothing except a propaganda tool, but I'm not personally educated enough on it's history to give you a good refutation.
Well. it seems I have a lot of reading to do.
Isn't the only thing wrong with the political compass is that the questionnaire lies? I don't think it has ever gotten me right as it seems to just shove you to one of the 4 corners where I would suspect most people would actually just circle around the center point. I don't see anything wrong with adding an extra axis to the political spectrum, even if the questionnaire is bollocks. No simplified model is going to show nuance because well. it's simplified.
Well. it seems I have a lot of reading to do.
:D you have no idea how happy it makes me to read that. Thank you so much for listening to my humble posting, this really is truely the best lenses I've had to view the world through and I'm so glad I was able to pique your interest!
Isn't the only thing wrong with the political compass is that the questionnaire lies?
Not just the questionnare, but the entire framing it uses is flawed and is meant to be used to draw reactionary stances and positions from. The ideology is coming from within the compass!!!
I've been advised by comrades that this is a good refutation which goes over everything I could possibly hope.
You think that Authoritarianism is needed to keep the revolution going. Definitely correct if you do it through a coup. I don't want to be under a nation that will silence me or worse because I criticise them. You can call that counter-revolutionary if you like but I would rather have incremental improvements where things get better slowly than everything is worse now and you just got to believe that things will get better, and our leaders plans will all just work out.
This debate of Revolution vs Reform has been had time and time again, these debates were solved 100 years ago. First off, Allende's Chile did what you were talking about in a global south country and he got couped within three years by the United States; this path of "social democracy" is only possible within the imperial core, so for the vast majority of humanity it's something locked off that as much as they struggled for it could not achieve it. All else I can share is this additional video by Azurescapegoat on how the social democracy as you describe it will inevitably fall apart and how it actively is in Sweden and many other European countries. The progress they gave was very small and now, with the Soviet Union gone, is being completely rolled back.
The only consistent way shown to enact progress is through the ML system, the only socialist system that's been shown to consistently result in progress. The Soviet Union went from a tsarist backwater to the nation that ended the holocaust and became the leader of the space race in under 40 years. Now, China has eradicated Extreme Poverty and become the world's leader in greenhouse reductions (despite needing to build up their economy themselves). As it's been shown, yes, ML nations are those that have been able to enact the kind of incremental change you desire and more importantly keep it.
Fuck goddammnit I wrote a whole ass thing and my phone died so here's the next best re-write of what I wrote fuck goddamnit.
A benevolent dictatorship is going to be the absolute best form of government you could possibly ever have but. You are never going to have one. The people at the top want to be at the top, and the people who want to be at the top are always going to be bastards.
Yeah that's true, that's why no socialist believes in a "benevolent dictatorship". We believe in a "dictatorship of the proletariat", a society in where the "proletariat" dictates society. It does not mean rule by one man, or rule by a special executive, no project could have survived as such with as many socialists among it's ranks. For example, today we live in a "dictatorship of the bourgeoisie" where the bourgeois class can dictate society's whims, but we desire a "dictatorship of the proletariat" where the proletarian class dictates society.
Even historically, we saw a bit of consolidation of power, but it was no match for the way that democracy was extended to society during those periods of time as well. Almost universally, except for Czechia, every single socialist project went from a thoroughly anti-democratic backwater to a democratic society. Batista's Cuba, Tsarist Russia, Fascist Poland and Romania, Yugoslavia, China, the imperialized lands of Korea, Vietnam, Laos, etc. These are all lands that were able to make a great leap forward in terms of democratic progress.
For more information on how the imperfect soviet democracy functioned, I recommend the book Workers' Participation in the Soviet Union. As opposed to being a stalinist backwater, in reality the Soviet Union was an imperfect but quite functional democracy which was capable of many things the United States even now finds itself unable to do.
China's history of Democracy is far too complicated and full of ups and downs for me to share just one book, the entire Cultural Revolution can be seen as an example of democracy being extended too far and spilling out into violence on the streets. This necessitated a kind of regression of democracy, which now has gone forward and progressed again into Whole Process People's Democracy. China changes far too often for me as an outsider to give an accurate record of what it currently is like on a whole (as every province does it a little different as well), but one thing I can share is that the thoroughly American institution of Harvard has even conducted studies on democratic satisfaction in China and found that 95.5% of people in China view the state of things as satisfactory or even good! Far better than the numbers we get here at the end of the day in the states.
Democracy in Cuba is still roughly according to how it was in this video. Things have been exacerbated by the Covid pandemic, and there's certainly issues that exist don't get me wrong, but it's still far more democratic than the United States by far.
I'm beginning to run out of steam and need to focus on other things in my day now so I may become less responsive lol
What kind of zoomer mod posts their fights publicly like this instead of solving them. Ineffective American habit-forming behavior.
I just realized it's pinned. 0 self awareness.
This shit does not reflect well on the mods here. *removed externally hosted image*
If this is not addressed we will be defederating until this issue is resolved. https://hexbear.net/post/367898
I've held community polls and discussions for every major decision or event in this community. I figured that this was a major enough event that the public should be brought in to the discussion.
This isn't zoomer whatever the fuck this is me sticking to the way the community has operated for the past 3 months.So you've been a complete failure for three months, that's hardly something to be proud of.
Dont let the hexbear people fool you! You are doing a great job moderating here :)
What by being a pissbaby and removing comments calling out their ableism and racism with more ableism?
I thought y'all liked spreading out authority. Shouldn't the community witness the machinery of progress?
The amount of upvotes on some truly heinous replies in this thread (and many other threads here) should be alarming to anyone.
Anti-communism is an open door to fascism. Vulgar anti-communism IS fascism.
The Soviet Union and The People's Republic of China are #1 and #2 for the greatest reductions in poverty and improvements to living standards in human history.
I'm a socialist you fucking loser. Shut the fuck up and think before assuming I'm a fascist for disagreeing with you.
The Soviet Union and The People's Republic of China are #1 and #2 for the greatest reductions in poverty and improvements to living standards in human history.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Did I say you were a fascist? I said that anti-communism leaves the door open to fascists. And I said that ideologically vulgar anti-communism is the underpinning of fascism. These are both true. If you make your community about anti-communism, fascists will come. And fascism gains power when the capitalist class is in crisis and chooses a less profitable closed society that keeps the left in check rather than see their power realistically challenged.
You can laugh all you want at easily researched facts but they're still true. China. I'll edit when I find one for the USSR that isn't a lecture or a book, but in the meantime reflect on how they went from feudal farmers to the first people in space within a generation
Oh. And they did it without the stolen wealth of entire continents in the southern hemisphere.Ah yes, because the best way to defeat fascism is to worship dictatorships lead by power-hungry, totalitarian bigots
Hollow buzzwords aside, the Soviet Union literally did defeat fascism.
Only because they saw Germany as a threat. You do realise they still put gay people in camps, right? That they deported entire ethnic groups they didn't like? They were only marginally better than the Nazis.
He would actually put me in a gulag for being queer, an anarchist, and an Esperantist; but if historical revisionism is what helps you sleep at night, you do you.
And then he pushed the Doctors' Plot conspiracy theories and had Jews arrested and tortured for crimes they didn't commit, but I guess that didn't happen in your little fantasy land.
Uh, yes I am? You don't know shit about my political opinions
You're an anti-communist clown that would gladly collaborate with fascists
In fact, you're actively hoping for an opportunity to do so, just so you could oWn tHe tAnKiEs
Eat shit
You don't know shit about my political opinions
Neither do you it seems. I'm going to assume a couple of things here, correct me if I'm wrong.
- You live in a western country
- you're no older than 25
- you've never read any theory. No Engels, no Marx, no Lenin, no Luxembourg, nothing.
- you spend a lot of time watching streamers. probably v*ush, which is the only one I've heard of so far and god do I wish I didn't.
- your political and ideological views are pretty much a direct representation of the views of said streamers.
- anything to the left of you, you consider 'wrongthink', and attempt to shut down your own learning process by calling everyone who says things you don't like a tankie.
- you don't like tankies because they are 'authoritarian' but refuse to learn what the question of authority actually entails. I'll link Engels' 'On authority' so you can read that and see where we're coming from (https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/10/authority.htm). There are also audiobooks because I'm assuming you won't read this either.
- you can't spell 'bourgeoisie' without looking it up on the internet.
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You believe that communists stabbed Makhnovia in the back
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You believe that Makhnovia was an example of anarchist principals put into practice
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You have no idea that the Makhnovists had a secret police, that they engaged in the summary execution of political rivals, and that committed genocidal acts against German settlers and especially Mennonites in Ukraine
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You believe that communists stabbed the Spanish Republic in the back
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You believe that major parts of the Spanish Republic are an example of anarchism put into practice
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You have no idea that the Spanish Republic had forced labour camps, extreme levels of control over labourers and the movement and spending habits of the people, zero desire to lose their colonial holdings over the part of Morocco that was their colony because they aspired to colonise more of Africa and that they rejected overtures from the Moroccan people who sued for independence with very favourable conditions for the Spanish Republic, and all the apparatuses of state that you would expect from a typical government
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You are unable to provide a functional definition of fascism without looking it up
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you can't spell 'bourgeoisie' without looking it up on the internet.
wouldn't be me
The Soviet Union and The People's Republic of China are #1 and #2 for the greatest reductions in poverty and improvements to living standards in human history.
This is a factually true statement. You should check it.
Stalin would've thrown you in a gulag for being a "sexual deviant" if you lived in the Soviet Union during his reign. In China you are just straight up not allowed to get HRT unless you have a clean criminal record and your ENTIRE FAMILY approves on top of the standard medical gatekeeping. If even one family member disapproves of your transition (which is almost certainly likely considering how popular transphobia is there) the government is like "nope sorry can't help you there" and will throw you in prison if you try to get HRT by other means.
I do not know why the fuck you want to lick boots that would kick you in the face.
So? The europeans were imprisoning and chemically castrating us at the time. It was queer people in the GDR that caused a lot of the social movements that improved Europe on lgbt issues in fact. Here's a great video on that topic.
You are yet another liberal that only views history by comparing it to the present instead of within its correct historical context.
I also don't see what it has to do with the previous factually correct statement. You are desperately diverting away from the point.
Where are all the Native Americans, dronie?
The sparrows were considered a pest and the policy to exterminate them was clearly a bad one, but you know what? Trying to exterminate pests that you see eating your food and having it backfire isn't exactly a deliberate crime against humanity. Compare with capitalism which actually is implicated by famines of greed like Bengal and Ireland.
Why did the US exterminate the buffalo? Were they eating your food? Were you trying to increase the food supply when you were doing it? Or were you trying to starve an entire continent of people so you could kick over their last dying armies and fertilize your crops with their remains?
The native Americans were not seen as citizens at that time. They were driven out. This was reprehensible.
Fyi this is how all territory, on the planet, was acquired.
Remember ghengis Khan? The whole shape of China is the result of MASSIVE imperialism and conquest. Neither ghengis (or the many other conquesting leaders of China, including mao) or Jackson are alive now, so their actions are historical in nature.
The difference is china did that to their own people, through incompetence, not though land acquisition.
Be clear: I'm not advocating imperialism, but there is a certain difference between killing millions of people through displacement, and killing millions of YOUR OWN PEOPLE through idiocy.
Especially since the four pests campaign occurred less than 100 years ago.
Also great whataboutism, I never claimed america was the gold standard, only that china and the Soviet union certainly don't own the crown.
https://alphahistory.com/chineserevolution/a-soviet-scientist-on-the-four-pests-campaign-1964/
Edit: "lol ghengis Khan old" yeah, he's dead and so are his "voters". So is Andrew Jackson and his "voters".
Edit edit: don't decry me for being "jingoistic" in a thread where I called a guy out for simping for a nation state in the first place.
Be clear: I'm not advocating imperialism, but there is a certain difference between killing millions of people through displacement, and killing millions of YOUR OWN PEOPLE through idiocy.
Memory holing Covid already
As someone with a lot of indigenous family friends and comrades I sincerely hope you get in the fucking pit
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone This is the kind of shit you are cool with? Seriously?
Like this user is literally justifying genocide.
Man I'm sorry you had to see that bastard demonstrate how much of an irredeemable piece of shit he is. America is a demonic state built on stolen land, may it be destroyed and the land returned to the original owners, the indigenous peoples.
but there is a certain difference between killing millions of people through displacement, and killing millions of YOUR OWN PEOPLE through idiocy.
intentional genocide is far, far worse. and every legal system recognizes this. it's literally the difference between manslaughter and murder.
The native Americans were not seen as citizens at that time.
simping for a nation state
The native Americans were not seen as citizens at that time. They were driven out.
the colonization of america is the greatest act of genocide through all of human history. saying the native americans were just 'driven out' is fucking demonic. then again, i guess by your logic it's fine, since the europeans weren't killing 'their own' people
It is straight up fascist ideology to speak about violence and conquest as being innate human traits and the natural order of history. It's fucking wrong, by the way. And likewise this talk of human life being worth differently if it's "one of your own people" versus an "other" being killed.
wHaTaBouTiSM
The cynicism with which your accusations are made is fair criticism.
The prioritization of the importance of "their own people" is transparently jingoistic thinking that you are just glossing over
Fyi this is how all territory, on the planet, was acquired.
Literal fascist talking point, and baby-level understanding of history.
You'd do well to remember that Mao never fought outside of China.
Remember ghengis Khan? The whole shape of China is the result of MASSIVE imperialism and conquest.
Congratulations, you know 1 fact about Asian history. Meanwhile, 90% of Chinese live in lands that were part of the Han state, 1500 years before Genghis.
No one here is saying that Communist China or the USSR didn't make mistakes. If you compare them to the west, the difference is that after the first 30 years, you no longer had famines in the socialist countries. The capitalist countries, however, still had famines an embarrassing length of time after their founding- although some of that was deliberate colonial violence like the Winston Churchill administration stealing and withholding grain from Bengal as redundant strategic reserves, and killing 5 million people in just a few years.
If you see history as anything more than a collection of random facts, you can apply patterns to things that you can draw conclusions from- like "socialist states have vastly outperformed capitalist states in terms of relative development and improvements in general welfare".
First, yeah, sure, Mongolians saw things through modern Euro-centric racism to say "we are all the same, there are no Mongolians or Chinese, only backwards Asians". Second, your defense of Native American genocide basically boils down to "your honor, we didn't consider them human when we genocided them"
why is it worse to attempt to prevent famine, and fail, than it is to attempt to genocide people and succeed?
"Killing your own people" Is literally Nazi discourse.
It's how they differentiated between Germans and German Jews. They weren't really 'their people', so it wasn't bad.
Do better.
Hell yeah, I'm glad you checked out all my great posts
I am a Communist, and I will always be a Communist.
I support the political sovereignty of workers' states across the world, and I will always do so.
You are a Western Chauvinist, a reactionary, and an Imperialist; however you can choose to be otherwise by engaging in international workers solidarity, and defending workers' states against Capitalist encroachment.
eventually you will stop being 14. hopefully your brain develops enough by then that you understand why everyone is dunking on you.
some people want to post here but are repelled by "fuck tankies?"
good.
that is the intended functionality of the banner.
Generally speaking, people offended by this are either:
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libs that dont understand the distinction between tankie and communist or have been misinformed by tankies on what its supposed to mean, but are pro communism(wierd combination?)
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the "CCCP did nothing wrong" people
maybe having something leftist in the banner or some place like that could help the former, but I wouldnt remove the message, as it acts as a soft filter for the latter.
Fuck anyone who works for the Dept of Naval Intelligence or the FBI. Fuck their social media interns, even. Anyone who interferes with the internet to filter out left-wing political content is scum.
If that offends you more than "fuck tankies," you have the same problem but worse.
You're a human or a fed. Are we on the same page? If not, that'd be odd, since this is just a trans-friendly forum for harmless shitposting, right? There shouldn't be any feds here.
I dont understand what this means. What does the dept of naval intelligence have to do with this post on lemmy.blahaj.zone
Certain social media ops/tracking programs are run by the DNI. Not saying they'd be on this site but the mods seem really pesky about condemning Western federal agencies so this is a test, basically. If "Tankies" in their head are more threatening than the FBI in real life, they have something to answer to
How about fuck anyone who works for the Chinese disinformation and propaganda arm. Fuck anyone who censors their citizen’s internet. Fuck anyone who is actively committing genocide against minorities within their country.
Works both ways!
Fuck anyone who is actively committing genocide against minorities within their country.
Are you american?
Please go ahead and compare anything to what is happening to the Uighur people.
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I say I have to agree. Leftist infighting is cringe AF. Disagree w/ people all you want, but gatekeeping and name calling is just silly
I think it's reasonable to want to have a space that's free from people that defend authoritarian regimes. From my perspective, at least, 196 has always been a more anarchist-oriented space, and I think it makes sense to try to preserve that.
I'd also make the distinction that they are not banned from this forum, in the same way that libs are not banned from posting on their instance -- but those that post there are generally met with hostility, and that preserves the character of their space. I don't see why we shouldn't do the same.
Not to mention that this sub is unapologetically pro LGBT while practically every authoritarian government (including particularly those that tankies support) has been anti LGBT. eg, China prohibits same sex marriage and adoption, while forcing trans people to get permission from their family to transition (spoiler alert: they ain't progressive).
Democratic socialism with actual equality for all (which goes hand in hand with the root issue socialism is supposed to solve) makes sense and is reasonable. But that's not what tankies support. They're defined by support for authoritarian states that have nothing to do with equality except pretending that they care about it.
Someone's missed the boat on Cuba's new constitution.
Just a snippet, btw:
Since June 2008, qualifying Cubans have been able to have free sex reassignment surgeries under Resolución 126 ("Resolution 126").[79][80] Opinion polling suggested the move was unpopular among the Cuban public.[81]
As many scholars suggest, the Cuban Government treats trans rights and sex reassignment surgeries as a health issue. Cuba operates under the idea that healthcare is a right to all, allowing trans people access to public health care.
AES literally more based than the United States.
I'll leave my emojis below:
spoiler
That's great. Good for them. Personally, I'm a lot more amenable to supporting Cuba. While certainly still deeply imperfect, I see Cuba as largely the victim of American bullshit sanctions.
But the fact that Cuba is better doesn't change the fact that tankies regularly support China specifically. If you support two things, with one being good and one being bad, you're still supporting a bad thing. So I don't think your comment justifies support for China.
China prohibits same sex marriage
Dude. America prohibited same-sex marriage until 2015. And it was not Obama or Congress who legalized gay marriage in America, it was 9 unelected judges, by a 5-4 ruling by the way. And those same 9 unelected judges can take away Americans' right to gay marriage any time they want to. There are lawsuits in place that are trending in that direction. As if America does not have a history of anti-gay discrimination...
As opposed to the democratic political system in china I assume? I'm so fucking sick of American "leftists" simping for the boots they haven't felt.
I'm not American you dumbfuck. And I engage in queer-left activism where I live.
How the fuck do you plan to establish a socialist regime in an imperialist world? The revolution, if it's to last, needs to be global. Even militarily capable projects like Rojava are entirely dependent on the imperialist instincts of the fucking US state department or the CCP as-is.
To claim geographical distance of human rights violations and authoritarian geopolitical interests matters in an age where it takes a few days to circle the world and all global trade in interdependent is all but identical to enabling the genocides at 'home', and tankies will get the fucking wall for it :3
Your distinction really has no meaning when there are places in China where people can be openly LGBTQ same as America with the US being more actively hostile to people in most places.
I'm fine with the use of the term authoritarian if it has actual meaning, but the way it's used here it's totally context less unless you just assume whoever is saying it is saying it as a stand in for "not a Western liberal democracy".
A thing which actually cheapens a term which was meant primarily to refer to fascist dictatorships and feudal dictatorships.
East Germany was the most LGBT friendly country in the west for a lot of its existance and Cuba is the most LGBT friendly country in the world rn. Both Marxist Lenninist. China is at the same ballpark regardng LGBT rights and protections as most of its neighbours and arguably better than most of them
Based just on what's in this post and not knowing much history about it, I'm where you are right now too. If their concern is "tankie" includes unobjectionable stuff, we can at least give them the opportunity to give us some examples to make their point. If they can come up with stuff that we agree often gets the "tankie" label applied to it but is actually consistent with this instance's core principles, then we should hear them out. But if they are like "well, CCP is actually based," then no thanks.
Just go to hexbear.net for 5 minutes and you will see that it is full of people going "CCP/Russia/North Korea is based"
Nobody there says modern Russia is "based"
WRT the DPRK I highly recommend educating yourself on the Korean war starting with the podcast Blowback.
Also @moonsnotreal@lemmy.blahaj.zone referred i the "CCP" which is a racist reordering of the CPC to emphasize the Chinese over the Communist. The actual name of the party is Communist Party of China. This distinction is important because the communist movement is international and the emphasis being placed here on China serves only as a scare tactic and is also rooted in orientalism which is also a racist trope.
even in the most sympathetic documentaries about the country, everyone’s lives revolve around the leader and the revolution almost a century ago.
The revolution is fucking important, but I don't think people in some rural town have their lives revolve around the Kims and not, idk, their crops, their temple, local affairs.
I have never seen a single person on Hexbear claim that Russia is communist, or "based", or even remotely socialist in any way under Putin. Please stop making accusations up out of thin air and putting words in other people's mouths, that's all we ask.
Stop reading articles and do actual research. Stream Blowback too.
The fact they feel the phrase fuck tankies is acting as a barrier to their participation in 196 should be a wake up call for them to examine their political views.
Unlike their use of the word liberal, which they use to refer to everyone to the right of them on the political spectrum, we are using the word tankie for a single specific group. Tankie means authoritarian communist. Please keep the sign.
I have been called a tankie for supporting Cuba, I have been called a tankie for saying the fall of Rhodesia was a good thing, I have been called a tankie for saying landlord isn't a legitimate profession, I have been called a tankie for saying Elon Musk doesn't deserve his wealth. "Tankie" is just "woke", but for centre left soc-dems
I agree with all of these takes. You're still a tankie though.
Unlike their use of the word liberal, which they use to refer to everyone to the right of them on the political spectrum, we are using the word tankie for a single specific group
Yes, for everybody to the left of you.
I'm personally more afraid of being drafted in a war started by russia but whatevs
What's your point? Are russia not currently being an imperialist nation? They are invading a country for the sake of territory
Now, just out of the blue, for no discernable reason, the Russian government decided it would just go ahead and conquer a large population in a land where it would have to fight an insurgency for approximately forever. Yes, this is definitely what's happening. A tankie might call this pure MSNBC brain, but there is literally nothing else you need to know in order to understand this conflict. Stay strong, and continue to be the smartest person in the room.
I am a social democrat. I think we should elect socialist politicians through our existing democracy. The socialist politicians will then vote on legislation to regulate the economy and ensure that corporations do not gain an outsized influence in the free market.
Looks at Allende, the Indonesian Genocide, ÖSDAP, and the US Civil War... I am sure, this time the ruling class will just say "aww shucks", and peacefully give up power, rather than fight to retain power like every previous time.
This has been tried many times and history shows that it's a really effective way of getting yourself couped and get a brutal reactionary regime put in your place. The bourgeoisie is not burdened by any high-minded liberal ideals when it comes to preserving their wealth and power, they are going to do whatever it takes.
Here in the US, the people rule. Since socialist policies are in the interest of the people, they will want to vote for politicians who support socialist policies.
Here in the US, the people rule.
This is literally objectively not true:
https://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/princeton-experts-say-us-no-longer-democracy
The US is not, and has never been, a democracy, because the people do not direct the actions of the government except on the margins. There is no democratic input on imperialism or capitalism. Those are invariate, and the system is designed to protect those from public influence.
We have always been a democracy
Including the time when white people could own black people as slaves? That democracy?
- 70% of Americans want singlepayer healthcare
- 90% want universal background checks for firearm purchases
- 75% want Citizen's United repealed
and yet these and other popular policies remain politically impossible
Ok, you know things. Cool. So why are you being so dodgy about hyperspecific political tendencies? Why is such a precarious, controlled, center-left (by ur standard) system like the US worth balancing?
come on this has to be satire. you can't be serious about this shit.
Study: Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens:
From the abstract:
Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence.
further down:
In the United States, our findings indicate, the majority does not rule — at least not in the causal sense of actually determining policy outcomes. When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites and/or with organized interests, they generally lose. Moreover, because of the strong status quo bias built into the U.S. political system, even when fairly large majorities of Americans favor policy change, they generally do not get it.
What is it, like, 70% of Americans want single payer healthcare?
The people rule so effectively in the USA that the candidate with less votes has won 1/3 of presidential elections in the 21st century.
How can you be a "democracy" if the candidate with the most votes loses the election? I thought that was the number one rule of democracy, the person with the most votes wins.
Since socialist policies are in the interest of the people, they will want to vote for politicians who support socialist policies.
Yes, you are right. People voted for Obama in 2008 because he promised nationalized healthcare. Obama also promised to shut down Guantanamo Bay prison. And people voted for Biden in 2020 because he promised student loan debt relief. Both presidents failed to deliver on their promises. Why? Because democracy in America is and always has been "bread and circuses." Voting every two/four years is a distraction. Capital controls America, because it controls the American economy. How many elections do you need to see before you realize that it's always going to be the same shit?
And any actual socialist will be destroyed by the press. Jeremy Corbin -> anti-Semitic (he's not). Bernie Sanders -> misogynistic racist (he's not, and Biden and Trump both have dozens of sexual assault claims against them). Same shit, different year. Capital, the media, and special interest groups stop all progress from happening in American "democracy." No one has ever voted their way to a revolution.
Good gracious. And people say we're the ones living in a dream world.
i"m not an anticommunist, i just hate and denounce like 95% of communists and communist parties worldwide rn and historicaly (they are and were some variation of leninist)
Yeah you are against a very specific group, communists, no need to hide it
There is no one to the right of authoritarians who want to silence dissent and use violence to right the inequalities in society.
If we were at war and they were soldiers, sure. Otherwise it's murder.
To be clear, what I asked for, was that the direct contents of a DM not be shared without the other parties permission. You can absolutely summarise the contents of the discussion.
Oh boy, more of Moss starting shit. This is literally bait that doesn't actually communicate anything, along with communicating something you never actually said. Moss, quit with the shitty bait posts and ableist slurs, you are a drama starter in your own community and it isn't appreciated. Malicious compliance towards Ada is a dick move.
Yeah at every turn Moss comes off as immature. Really not painting blahaj in a great light
Shoot I didn't mean to start any shit with ada. I didn't have time for a whole write up this morning the scribbled image was all I had time to do during my commute. I think it's coming off as a lot dickier than I meant to
Posting a blacked out screenshot and saying "Ada made me do it" is just weird. You didn't even leave a description. All we see is that you got a DM and there are a bunch of scribbles over it, this is a nothing burger. It being pinned to the top of the community is weird. If you had posted the actual screenshot and made an actual point to what they said and didn't use slurs that insult my child, I'd feel a tad different. But as it stands, this really feels like drama seeking behavior. There is no argument being made, it's just directing people towards Hexbear.
This is the kind of thing that Chapo got banned from Reddit over, the exact event that created Hexbear. If you don't like Hexbear, that's fine. They are generally drama starters, I don't support defederation but I understand why it's being talked about. But you can't call their users slurs, provide no context to what they said, and expect anybody in what is a safe space to be okay with it. It is literally the same thing that makes us discuss defederation with Hexbear, except they don't use slurs.
The context is that I pointed out their ableism and the fact that the whole "tankie" thing is often leveled at non-white organizations and people striving for liberation and they removed my comments while using more ableist language in the modlog.
I tried to be diplomatic and will still put forth that effort but wrt this Moss person, the gloves are off.
Okay couple things here, some of which are legitimate criticism, and some of which are just straight up ignoring the fact that they've been resolved. I'll respond in order. One: the screenshot. Originally, I had a screenshot of the DM, with the intention of people responding to it as a sort of survey. Ada removed the post, and asked me not to post private messages, so I quickly scribbled out the DM in the 3 minutes of free time I had to check my phone and left for a good 8 hours or so. Now that I'm back, I have not had adequate time to create a write-up of what the DM said, as I've been too busy trying to put out the fires I inadvertently caused. I have also already unpinned the post from the community, as it was only pinned while I was deciding how to respond to the hexbear admin. Secondly, the slurs. Whether or not I should have used a word derived from a slur is besides the point, because after people corrected me I edited the post accordingly. I have already resolved this, and corrected my behavior so there's really no reason to continue fighting about it. I've also never called anyone slurs! I used a semi-slur in an extreme hypothetical example of what I wasn't saying that is used by the right as a catch-all insult for anyone slightly left of center. What you're accusing me of I miles off the mark for what originally happened. also wtf is a chapo
The post comes off as super passive aggressive, I have a hard time believing that was completely unintentional
Nah they haven't been resolved, you're throwing a tantrum because you got called out for being racist and ableist.
I think if a person feels offended by a generic "fuck tankies" in the banner, then that person is probably a tankie. Fuck tankies.
