Yes, I wanted to get out of that because it was clear that the conversation wasn't about what we were talking about anymore, but point-scoring and dunking for the audience. That's why I disengaged.
Am I allowed to engage here according to our rules? Mods, remove it if not, but seems like a good faith reading would be that I can here engage, seeing as he responded to me and I'm defending the disengage request?
I think that dunking for an audience isnt a very fair description for the person you responded to, to be fair to them. It did seem to be engaging with your expressed beliefs directly. Many of these conversations are done so for an audience (what's the point of talking to someone that you might not convince instead of focusing on the 60 people reading it that might be?).
It was a lot of topic switching happening, for sure, but I think you contributed equally if not more to that (intentionally or not, because all inserted claims become fair game). It still is annoying to be chasing a thread that constantly escapes though (the feeling I get when comments seem to continue veering into every related topic under the umbrella) and that's why I'm in support of you just calling for the disengage like you did.
I don't think that is reflected badly on most of the responders directly above though, in all honesty, and I will defend them against accusations of only point-scoring when they are responding in mostly large format effort-posts. The others throwing emotes and such, for sure were just scoring points.
No idea about the rules as written, but I think it's absolutely reasonable to respond to someone engaging. If that's against the rules, those are some strange rules.
I think that dunking for an audience isnt a very fair description for the person you responded to, to be fair to them. It did seem to be engaging with your expressed beliefs directly. Many of these conversations are done so for an audience (what's the point of talking to someone that you might not convince instead of focusing on the 60 people reading it that might be?).
It was a lot of topic switching happening, for sure, but I think you contributed equally if not more to that (intentionally or not, because all inserted claims become fair game). It still is annoying to be chasing a thread that constantly escapes though (the feeling I get when comments seem to continue veering into every related topic under the umbrella) and that's why I'm in support of you just calling for the disengage like you did.
Fair points.
The main reason I felt like that is because they plainly ignored everything I wrote except the parts that they felt they could most easily attack. Ignored my counters to the claims, and just dropped in new claims. If it's not gish-galloping, at least it's gish gallop adjacent. I'd like to think I'm pretty good at at least acknowledging "Hey, I don't have a reasonable response to what you said, I'll think about it".
We have a very strong rule about disengaging where the person replied to AND ALL OTHER HEXBEARS are required to respect it. I'm technically breaking it, but I broke it by telling someone to stop breaking it so I made it a grey zone.
Sure, gish-hallop adjacent is fair. But I would maintain a distinction between gish-galloping to avoid conversation and focusing on the point which illustrates the underlying philosophical problem best. If we don't do that, the posts just get longer and longer and longer. Focusing on the aspect most illustrative can then be better for conversation. It does feel annoying though, when that philosophy isn't fully outlined through the comments. It's clear to those that agree with the other poster (I get what he's doing and what positions are being shown) but to anyone not in the "in-group" it loses that and feels like picking and choosing the arguments easiest to respond to. Hexbears posting for each other can do it, those posting to convince should do better
But you don't have to continue that style and can just call a disengage, which was a good move I think. I would encourage you to try to understand what I've said here though for understanding what the posters were saying. I do agree with them more than you after all.
Yes, I wanted to get out of that because it was clear that the conversation wasn't about what we were talking about anymore, but point-scoring and dunking for the audience. That's why I disengaged.
Am I allowed to engage here according to our rules? Mods, remove it if not, but seems like a good faith reading would be that I can here engage, seeing as he responded to me and I'm defending the disengage request?
I think that dunking for an audience isnt a very fair description for the person you responded to, to be fair to them. It did seem to be engaging with your expressed beliefs directly. Many of these conversations are done so for an audience (what's the point of talking to someone that you might not convince instead of focusing on the 60 people reading it that might be?).
It was a lot of topic switching happening, for sure, but I think you contributed equally if not more to that (intentionally or not, because all inserted claims become fair game). It still is annoying to be chasing a thread that constantly escapes though (the feeling I get when comments seem to continue veering into every related topic under the umbrella) and that's why I'm in support of you just calling for the disengage like you did.
I don't think that is reflected badly on most of the responders directly above though, in all honesty, and I will defend them against accusations of only point-scoring when they are responding in mostly large format effort-posts. The others throwing emotes and such, for sure were just scoring points.
No idea about the rules as written, but I think it's absolutely reasonable to respond to someone engaging. If that's against the rules, those are some strange rules.
Fair points.
The main reason I felt like that is because they plainly ignored everything I wrote except the parts that they felt they could most easily attack. Ignored my counters to the claims, and just dropped in new claims. If it's not gish-galloping, at least it's gish gallop adjacent. I'd like to think I'm pretty good at at least acknowledging "Hey, I don't have a reasonable response to what you said, I'll think about it".
We have a very strong rule about disengaging where the person replied to AND ALL OTHER HEXBEARS are required to respect it. I'm technically breaking it, but I broke it by telling someone to stop breaking it so I made it a grey zone.
Sure, gish-hallop adjacent is fair. But I would maintain a distinction between gish-galloping to avoid conversation and focusing on the point which illustrates the underlying philosophical problem best. If we don't do that, the posts just get longer and longer and longer. Focusing on the aspect most illustrative can then be better for conversation. It does feel annoying though, when that philosophy isn't fully outlined through the comments. It's clear to those that agree with the other poster (I get what he's doing and what positions are being shown) but to anyone not in the "in-group" it loses that and feels like picking and choosing the arguments easiest to respond to. Hexbears posting for each other can do it, those posting to convince should do better
But you don't have to continue that style and can just call a disengage, which was a good move I think. I would encourage you to try to understand what I've said here though for understanding what the posters were saying. I do agree with them more than you after all.