We can assume how hexbear users feel about themselves. I’d be more interested in how local users feel.

  • Kellamity@sh.itjust.works
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Im a European left wing queer person, ive organised occupations, I've done door knocking and leaflet-ing detail, I've mocked many a liberal

    Hexbear deny genocides, which is... pretty fucking bad. And they're fuckin everywhere, contributing nothing of value

    Bin em

    (But i will say, this instance seems way happier to defed from hexbear than from the racist, anti-trans exploding heads, which was apparently super controversial for some reason)

    • Commiejones [comrade/them, he/him]
      ·
      1 year ago

      Hexbear deny genocides

      What? who? No. We deny alleged genocides that lack supporting evidence like the Uyghur "genocide" created by Zenz the cristo-fascist and Nazi sympathiser. We also deny the labelling of the Holodomor as genocide because it was caused by selfish kulak farmers resisting collectivization by burning crops and killing livestock and effected many ethnicities including Russians.

      • winterayars@sh.itjust.works
        ·
        1 year ago

        It's not just one guy saying it, there's more evidence than that.

        Also fuck you on the Holodomor. That kind of shit is why people don't take you seriously.

    • iie [they/them, he/him]
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      first of all, props for organizing.

      denying genocide

      This is way too swift and easy a dismissal. Things are bad in Xinjiang, but there is undeniably also a lot of bullshit floating around on the topic. Even the UN concedes there is no mass killing or organ harvesting. A lot of claims come from known bullshitters like Adrien Zens, the folks at Radio Free Asia, the NED, and other sources connected to the US state department. Xinjiang is a complex topic and should be discussed in a complex way, not just "anyone who disputes any aspect of the prevailing western narrative is a genocide denying monster."

      A million Iraqis died because Americans believed a fake story in 2003. More died in the 90s because Americans believed the Nayirah testimony. But if you had gone on an internet forum in 2003 and tried to debunk the Iraqi WMD reports, you would have looked like Charlie from IASIP with the red strings all over the wall.

      There were forged documents showing Saddam had tried to buy yellowcake uranium from Niger. There was testimony from a fake Iraqi nuclear scientist named Khidir Hamza. There were accounts of stockpiles of chemical weapons in glass capsules. There were diagrams of mobile chemical weapons manufacturing systems. There were the aluminum tubes, alleged to be parts for uranium enrichment equipment. There were names and dates and purchasing records, interviews, witnesses, I mean the list goes on, I'm scratching the surface. And the politicians and the media for both parties all vouched for the information and relentlessly pushed the case.

      It seems trivial now, but the story was persuasive at the time, and debunking it was no easy task. If America didn't drag multiple countries into an expensive war based on that story, the details never would have been scrutinized to such an extent, and we would probably still believe it.

      • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
        ·
        1 year ago

        But if you had gone on an internet forum in 2003 and tried to debunk the Iraqi WMD reports, you would have looked like Charlie from IASIP with the red strings all over the wall.

        I was there back then and people were calling bullshit. Heck, even Canada's Prime Minister called bullshit and found an excuse not to join the USA while not pissing them off by calling them liars.

        • iie [they/them, he/him]
          ·
          1 year ago

          similarly, there are people now, calling bullshit on the xinjiang organ harvesting narratives

          • commiewithoutorgans [he/him, comrade/them]
            ·
            1 year ago

            And even a majority is Muslim nations calling bullshit! I can't say the majority of nations, because I am not sure of sources for this outside of UN votes

      • winterayars@sh.itjust.works
        ·
        1 year ago

        Two points: First, the US engaged in a war of aggression and probably not specifically genocide in Iraq. This is a real difference of kind. Still criminal state activity and of course the US got away with it free (mostly) just like how it gets away with all its crimes against humanity or whatever. A better example would be the US commiting genocide on the native population, which was one of the most intense and successful ethnic extermination campaigns in history.

        Second, it was pretty obvious at the time that all that shit was made up. I called it hard and was right. So did many, many others. They were just afraid to say it out loud because the county was very, very rapidly being pushed toward turning into a fascist nightmare. (Seriously, people forget how fucked up it was.) After Colin Powell'a speech to the UN my father and i had a conversation and made a bet. If what Powell said turned out to be false then my father would leave the Republican party and stop supporting that kind of crap. If it turned out to be true i would join. Now i really didn't want to vote Republican, had no intention of doing so, but i knew i wasn't going to lose that bet. My father, for his part, stayed true to his word.

        • HumanBehaviorByBjork [any, undecided]
          ·
          1 year ago

          The point of the Iraq lie isn't simply a redirection that "the US also does it." it's that the empire is capable of widescale deception to manufacture consent when the need arises. you may have realized it was a crock, but enough people were fooled the wholesale destruction of multiple sovereign nations went off without a hitch. "Bush lied, people died" only became the majority opinion after they had gotten away with it. Even now the popular consensus is that "mistakes were made," not that there was a wilful deception for the sake of expanding US global military hegemony.

        • iie [they/them, he/him]
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          first, the US engaged in a war of aggression and probably not specifically a genocide in Iraq. This is a real difference of kind.

          The other difference is that one actually happened and the other did not.

          Also, if we were about to go to war with China, I bet it would suddenly become obvious to a lot of people that the US has been making shit up since the trade war started.

          pretty obvious

          iirc around 76% of Americans supported the Iraq war.

    • Shihali@sh.itjust.works
      ·
      1 year ago

      Maybe I wasn't here yet, but I don't remember exploding-heads users coming by the dozen to insult and taunt us on posts on our own instance. That's the behavior that has people up in arms about Hexbear. If instead they just made the occasional post in support of genocide to "own" the USA, I think there would be a lot less support for defederation.

    • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]
      ·
      1 year ago

      Hexbear deny genocides

      Everyone is a "genocide denier," unless you believe in "The Great Replacement" and white genocide, for instance. But there's a big difference between denying made up bullshit like that and denying well-documented genocides, which we do not do.

        • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]
          ·
          1 year ago

          No, because then they'd be lying. What I'd prefer is that they actually provide sources for whatever "well-sourced" genocides we're alleged to deny.

      • Nakoichi [they/them]
        ·
        1 year ago

        So you don't even deny that you won't defed from an admittedly anti-trans racist instance? And you want to try to tell me your community isn't cool with racists (which makes you racist)

    • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
      ·
      1 year ago

      I think the issue with EH was that at that point registration was still free for all and Lemmygrad was already defederated so there were more right wing users that figured the place was open to them..,

      Also the decision process wasn't established yet...

      But you can be sure that HB will come in droves to hijack the discussion when it gets created...

    • gothicdecadence@lemm.ee
      ·
      1 year ago

      Do you have any good resources for neighborhood detail? Or would it be very area / demographic / community specific?