So I mostly don't want to reply to the vitriol beyond what I already have, but by most reasonable understandings of grimdark, I would contend that the Soulsborne games aren't particularly grimdark. They are a little tonally and very aesthetically dark most of the time, but that's not what grimdark is. Grimdark is Guts dragging himself over broken glass for months trying to protect Casca from the demons that they both attract and not even being able to sleep more often than like once a week because there's always some fucking phantom sneaking up trying to eat their souls or something. Grimdark is oriented around animosity and squalor as much as powerlessness and morbidness.
Yes, I did use Berserk as a contrasting example.
Dark Souls is extremely gothic in its writing in the sense that it's perpetually mournful of basically everything in the world because the world is already mostly dead and the rest of it is dying. You can say that's tedious or tacky or whatever and that's fine, I'm not telling you to like it, but it has a very different tone from what "grimdark" suggests. If most of Dark Souls was like Blight Town, you'd have a good case, but most of the time you're in ruins or natural environments fighting off echoes of the past while reading epitaphs. On a story level, the struggle isn't dedicated opponents or even really your own weakness nearly so much as it is the entropy of the universe.
Yes, the intro cutscene to DS2 is in many respects grimdark. Go look at another one, literally any of the other ones.
Okay Bloodborne is, well, ironically less gothic in the sense I described but it's oriented around cosmic horror, the "grimdark" is mostly a veneer that you get baited on before the werewolves start having 4 mouths and tentacles. It is very blood blood nightmare blood though, but the "nightmare" part is pretty cool
I don't really know what to think of Elden Ring tbh. I don't think it's a very good game, but I think the relationship between society and cosmology in it is actually really cool (at least sometimes) and way more than I can remember seeing from basically any other game.* I also really like the cult that seems to be based on idealizing achieving immortality by reversing death, where normally the body is destroyed and the soul persists, by having the soul destroyed and the body persisting, turning the subject into kind of vegetative post-human (and maybe sort of a god?)
idk, it has a lot of stuff in it that is baffling but makes just enough sense to be interesting, which is just what I like compared to the common fantasy route of, if not being hopelessly paint-by-numbers, doing imaginary particle physics for no reason, like the cosmological equivalent of GoT politics where there is a lot of information but very little of it means anything at all in terms of themes or expressing ideas external to the text.
Elden Ring is way higher fantasy than the previous games (following the trend of escalation), which makes it harder to categorize as grimdark fantasy is usually very deliberately low fantasy for obvious reasons, but idk.
*There are interesting text-dumps in Elder Scrolls books, but that stuff almost never appears anywhere in the actual game, whereas it actually does factor into Elden Ring at least a bit (especially the endings)
I don't care what you call Elden Ring, I was just thinking aloud. As I said, I think it's a bad game, I just like the lore (and also a couple of bosses, like that anime wrestler dude near the end).
So I mostly don't want to reply to the vitriol beyond what I already have, but by most reasonable understandings of grimdark, I would contend that the Soulsborne games aren't particularly grimdark. They are a little tonally and very aesthetically dark most of the time, but that's not what grimdark is. Grimdark is Guts dragging himself over broken glass for months trying to protect Casca from the demons that they both attract and not even being able to sleep more often than like once a week because there's always some fucking phantom sneaking up trying to eat their souls or something. Grimdark is oriented around animosity and squalor as much as powerlessness and morbidness.
Yes, I did use Berserk as a contrasting example.
Dark Souls is extremely gothic in its writing in the sense that it's perpetually mournful of basically everything in the world because the world is already mostly dead and the rest of it is dying. You can say that's tedious or tacky or whatever and that's fine, I'm not telling you to like it, but it has a very different tone from what "grimdark" suggests. If most of Dark Souls was like Blight Town, you'd have a good case, but most of the time you're in ruins or natural environments fighting off echoes of the past while reading epitaphs. On a story level, the struggle isn't dedicated opponents or even really your own weakness nearly so much as it is the entropy of the universe.
Yes, the intro cutscene to DS2 is in many respects grimdark. Go look at another one, literally any of the other ones.
Okay Bloodborne is, well, ironically less gothic in the sense I described but it's oriented around cosmic horror, the "grimdark" is mostly a veneer that you get baited on before the werewolves start having 4 mouths and tentacles. It is very blood blood nightmare blood though, but the "nightmare" part is pretty cool
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I don't really know what to think of Elden Ring tbh. I don't think it's a very good game, but I think the relationship between society and cosmology in it is actually really cool (at least sometimes) and way more than I can remember seeing from basically any other game.* I also really like the cult that seems to be based on idealizing achieving immortality by reversing death, where normally the body is destroyed and the soul persists, by having the soul destroyed and the body persisting, turning the subject into kind of vegetative post-human (and maybe sort of a god?)
idk, it has a lot of stuff in it that is baffling but makes just enough sense to be interesting, which is just what I like compared to the common fantasy route of, if not being hopelessly paint-by-numbers, doing imaginary particle physics for no reason, like the cosmological equivalent of GoT politics where there is a lot of information but very little of it means anything at all in terms of themes or expressing ideas external to the text.
Elden Ring is way higher fantasy than the previous games (following the trend of escalation), which makes it harder to categorize as grimdark fantasy is usually very deliberately low fantasy for obvious reasons, but idk.
*There are interesting text-dumps in Elder Scrolls books, but that stuff almost never appears anywhere in the actual game, whereas it actually does factor into Elden Ring at least a bit (especially the endings)
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I don't care what you call Elden Ring, I was just thinking aloud. As I said, I think it's a bad game, I just like the lore (and also a couple of bosses, like that anime wrestler dude near the end).
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