EDIT: no, I don't sympathize with nazis (neither I sympathize with those who call everyone nazi when they're losing an argument ;)

  • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]
    ·
    a year ago

    Deng was alive and well when two of those stock exchanges were opened

    That's... what I said? Obviously, Deng was the one who implemented economic reforms, such as opening stock exchanges and allowing foreign investment. Some Maoists consider this to be right-deviationist and counter-revolutionary, and that he should've continued more in line with Mao's policies. That's why I asked if you're a Maoist, since you consider his reforms incompatible with socialism.

    I'm not sure who's whole argument was "look at the improvements only possible under Communism." China's conditions were much worse off than places like the US, so obviously it's possible to improve conditions to be better than per-revolutionary China (which is not saying much) without communism. It's just that in China's case, it was the communists that did it.

      • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]
        ·
        a year ago

        Over 60, actually. I think that doubling live expectancy over a single generation is, in fact, pretty impressive.

        So I take it you're not a Maoist or a Dengist. Can you tell me who you think should've been in power in China instead? The KMT? You can see how much they did on the graph, if you don't find the CPC's numbers impressive then I'm sure you'd hate them even more. The invading Japanese perhaps? The European colonizers? Or maybe you think the Qing dynasty should never have been overthrown.

        • mustardman@discuss.tchncs.de
          ·
          a year ago

          Correlation or causation? You know that industrialization increases life expectancy, right?

          It's not hard to double your life expectancy when you're starting out with the same life expectancy that existed in the Roman Empire almost 2,000 years prior. Thanks, Mao!

          • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]
            ·
            edit-2
            a year ago

            Of course I know that, did you not read what I said?

            "China's conditions were much worse off than places like the US, so obviously it's possible to improve conditions to be better than per-revolutionary China (which is not saying much) without communism."

            It's not hard to double your life expectancy when you're starting out with the same life expectancy that existed in the Roman Empire almost 2,000 years prior. Thanks, Mao!

            It really is wild that no other faction was willing to do anything that would increase Chinese life expectancy above that of the Roman Empire, yes. I agree, thanks, Mao!

            It's pretty funny that you criticize Deng for implenting economic reforms that led to further industrialization, while also crediting the rise in life expectancy to that very same industrialization.

            What even is your ideology? And can you answer my question about who should've come to power instead of the communists?

              • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]
                ·
                a year ago

                I have no idea what thought process led you to post that but ok.

                There were a lot of really simple, basic improvements that the peasants in China desperately needed. Anybody could've done what was needed, but nobody else was willing to, because nobody else cared. There was no special technical economic policy that uplifted them, it was just a willingness to address their needs that no other faction possessed.

                • mustardman@discuss.tchncs.de
                  ·
                  a year ago

                  The entire point of this brilliant thread is that communism, not individuals, lifted people out of poverty. Numerous economic systems have high life expectancy (socialist, capitalist, etc) and the common denominator is basically just industrialization.

                  Who would have thought the ability to make nation-state quantities of medication extends lives?

                  • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    a year ago

                    The entire point

                    That's all you fam, I never said anything like that. All I did was point to graph and say I liked it when people do things (and political projects) that make life expectancy skyrocket. You seem to have read a bunch of stuff into that.