EDIT: no, I don't sympathize with nazis (neither I sympathize with those who call everyone nazi when they're losing an argument ;)
defederate to maintain your very special echo chamber
defederate to stop sh.tjust.works chuds from harassing your comrades in DMs with violent, transphobic and ableist attackslol its this shit every time libs see a legitimate left stance. im assuming you’ve seen the sh.itjust.works defed post. its like 5 super vocal users having a conniption fit that there are communists on the internet
Hah. As if anyone could be more angry at communists on the internet than other communists on the internet.
This post assumes that a meaningful amount of defed instances are caused by simple lack of agreement. Often, it's an orthogonal matter - it boils down to instance A actually understanding something about the userbase of instance B and saying "I'm not dealing with this shit, it'll make the instance worse for its own users". For example: the typical user of B might be disingenuous, or preach immoral prescriptions, behave like a chimp, or be a bloody stupid piece of trash that should've stayed in Reddit to avoid smearing its stupidity everywhere here.
Are instance admins too eager to pull the trigger for defed? Perhaps, in some cases; specially because it handles groups of users instead of individuals. But those cases are better addressed through actual examples, not through a meme talking on generic grounds.
For example: the typical user of B might be disingenuous, or preach immoral prescriptions, behave like a chimp, or be a bloody stupid piece of trash that should've stayed in Reddit to avoid smearing its stupidity everywhere here.
lemm.ee, SJW, programming dev,
really anyone who isn't lemmygrad, Hexbear, or some of lemmy
Ive seen enough cool people from lemm.ee that I'm alright with them
LOL a tankie (read: genocide denialist) talking about some genocide denial? That's what I am referencing dipshit, both of you have the tendency to do the same, you just pick and choose which genocides to deny. Go fist your own dickhole.
Liberals when someone denies white genocide: 😡
Liberals when someone denies the Holocaust: 😍
Really going mask off there.
https://jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory
This is a pretty controversial position. I am willing to compromise. I don't especially care how they die. I'll abide other methods
"im a bit of a centrist on the matter, on the one hand throwing them into the pit is pretty good, but the firing squad people make a good point"
You can’t enter a discussion with somebody who’s just trying to bombard you into submission. OP is wildly ignorant or just somebody sad they’re being defederated on a different account.
Any instance not arguing in good faith gets removed normally.
Why so much drama over fed or defed, just change instances if you don't agree with your admin
I think where that falls down is if a big community is in X instance, the instance admins have control over that instance
Doesn't matter what instance you switch to if the communities you participate in are under that instance's control
Not saying that's a huge problem yet but it could turn into one and then we get powermods all over again
When everyone you meet is an asshole, you are probably the real asshole.
Funny how this works with social media as well.
"you say you don't like intolerance and yet that sounds like intolerance to me"
*smug face*
Currently. Of course in the past it was exploding heads for being Nazis, Lemmygrad for being insufferable tankies, then Burggit for lolicon, now hexbear for being insufferable tankies.
neither I sympathize with those who call everyone nazi when they're losing an argument ;)
Oh hey, look, it's the same thought terminating argument that the alt-right uses to whitewash Nazis!
Hey look its the same thought terminating argument tankies use when they want to bring about purges for "wrong think".
It's so cute when one of you is obviously just pulling out whatever scary Orwell words you remember from 8th grade english class
Defederation is becoming the Lemmy meme.
I think being on lemmy does not in any way oblige a user to listen to everyone all the time. A lot of people will just come here for a good time. And for the freedom of speech activists: freedom of speech also involves other peoples freedom not to want to listen.
Moreover, I think most people who want to defederate with certain instances don’t necessarily have a problem with different world views, but have a problem with the tone being set by a small percentage of the users of said instances. Unfortunately, only a small percentage is needed to create a general vibe.
I hope it will be possible for individual users to block entire instances very soon, this way this whole debate will become obsolete. Personally, I can’t wait for it (the debate to become obsolete, not blocking instances necessarily)
Also freedom of speech is between your government and you. Your government can't censor speech, private companies, individuals, organizations, ect, can censor your speech or censor themselves from hearing it. All rights are only between an individual and their government.
The private property rights that give private companies the ability to censor your speech are created and inforced by the government in the first place, so functionally it's not different. A handful of massive companies who functionally own the government getting to police what is acceptable speech is not functionally different from the government doing it directly.
Oh absolutely, taken in a greater context which I totally neglected to say that's absolutely true.
The blocking instances thing won't necessarily solve this problem.
You might be able to block posts from an instance but not comments or votes.
Blocking votes is not a concern, but it’s the comment toxicity that is (in my opinion) making this place lose something very special.
IDK, I think brigading / vote manipulation has more of an impact than most realise.
If the 'thing you dont agree' with is hate speech or shit promotting violence for example that's the only sane option you have lol
Here's a comment thread where a Hexbear user said "I hope to kill people like you" because I simply said I supported democratic socialism.
Going on any Hexbear instance people froth over telling anyone right of Karl Marx to "get up against the wall". You guys are, and will always be, a joke.
You said you supported Social Democracy not Democratic Socialism. Dem Socs are well-meaning but idealistic, not optimistic but the political philosophy of idealism. Soc Dems are supporters of a kinder capitalism for the Imperial core but keeping the child slaves mining cobalt in the Congo.
The fact that you think these are the same proves the original posters point that you should read theory. They were harsh but you were implying that keeping exploitation of the third world is preferable to socialism.
Dude you still don’t stop worker exploitation, don’t solve the contradiction of working and capitalist classes, don’t end imperialism or colonialism (social democracy outsources exploitation to the third world)
Ok let me know how your method works out
You said you supported Social Democracy not Democratic Socialism.
What a terrible mistake to make! Perhaps you should have assumed it was the correct orientation of the two words that are spelled exactly the same.
The fact that you think these are the same proves the original posters point that you should read theory.
I have, but thanks for the suggestion.
youre getting into arguments where you don't know what the words mean, and then acting indignant when people point that out
That's very ableist of you to conflate dyslexia with stupidity.
Assuming people are using words in the way they are widely and commonly accepted to mean (I mean, just look at Wikipedia for an easy starting point) is not a bad thing?
I'm innudated with endless notifications from you dweebs, mistakes happen.
I'm innudated with endless notifications from you dweebs, mistakes happen.
People keep telling me that I shit my pants based off the way I smell and the growing brown stain on my pants but they're all tankies because they're all wrong
What incredible insight. The word 'social' is referring to 'socialism' and so is the relation between 'democracy' and 'democratic'.
It would take an idiot to mix these up, right?
The word 'social' is referring to 'socialism' and so is the relation between 'democracy' and 'democratic'.
I guess social security = socialism security in your world? Social welfare programs are not socialism and if your political education included anything beyond Elizabeth Warren's policy page you'd know that.
No, social policies are not socialism, however, they do generally benefit the working class.
You guys are so worried about centrists that you are ignoring the fact that the US had a far right coup attempt less than three years ago.
And the US still has a far right regime in power, and has since 1776. What's your point?
No it has not been far right since 1776. I guess when you make up facts it's easy to prove your point though.
By the way, when's the glorious peoples revolution supposed to begin? More importantly, where are the people???
Read Liberalism A Counter History or shut up about shit you don't understand.
The people already revolted in the worlds largest country and their success will convince people to make similar steps once it's made obvious you're being fucked by your far right regimes. The people are hungering in most of the world and they will stand up you brain wormed fucker
Read this book I just read last month or you don't know anything!
It's funny, no matter how many reading assignments I actually partake in, it's never enough. Perhaps your movement would be more successful if you spent less time alienating anyone right of Ho Chi Minh.
Then read any fuckin book about this subject before speaking
Funny you mention that. Whenever I do cite any "theory" that I have read, you well-read individuals somehow always disappear and avoid discussing anything. I'm sure you'll either A) do the same thing or B) move the goalposts all the way to Laos/Cambodia.
https://discuss.tchncs.de/comment/2650764
Lol is that your best fuckin example? You didn't cite Marx lol you just misunderstood an analysis for a method and made a shit argument. You didn't deserve a good reply and dont now. I'm all for whatever analyses come out to peacefully move forward, but you're just preserving the current world for your benefit not trying to prevent some deaths or something. Millions die yearly to preventable causes which would end with global socialism.
I have never had the opportunity to have a more in-depth discussion because you guys seem more interested in smugly acting more intelligent than everyone, forgetting you need to recruit "people" to have a "people's revolution".
Since you're one of the wise leaders of the revolution, what is your plan to bring your superior ideologies to the masses?
I'm not first bringing ideologies to the masses, it's first proving a method works and then explaining why and how. You do this through Analyze the rising maladies of a system, describe how they've come about and explain how the solution only moves in 1 direction, socialism. Now I'm not gonna waste time explaining at any more depth until you prove yourself to be someone at all worth my time here by showing you've read literally anything relevant to the discussion.
I'm not more intelligent than the masses, no in fact I think that this is precisely only how you can think. There are those who have the time to develop certain skills which can be applied to reaching the intelligence and needs of the masses and those for whom that time is difficult and they build expertise in their specific fields. A vanguard is exactly the people who learn how to learn from the masses, not the opposite. Lenin was beloved for his ability to do this, and Stalin soon after with similar astonishingly high approvals.
Let me remind you, you're the one who thinks you're smarter and better than those masses who had to perform revolution to improve their conditions. I think they're just better than you
Yeah there are a lot of people smarter and better than me so that's not the insult you think it is.
What a terrible mistake to make! Perhaps you should have assumed it was the correct orientation of the two words that are spelled exactly the same.
Your beef is with the English Language not me. How is it my fault that you misidentified yourself? Funnily enough, you still don't identify your actual political position. It's clear that the only political position you'd take is what gives you an advantage in the argument. Fucking debatebros lol.
I have, but thanks for the suggestion.
Reading so much theory that you confuse two different political ideologies. Sometimes I read so much theory that that I claim to be a monarchist when I really mean to say I'm an anti-monarchist. Obviously the other person should have understood what I meant. Your literally on a communication medium that allows you to plan and edit your comments. You have no excuse for making this grade school mistake.
Debatebro? That's what Hexbear does best.
I would actually love to engage in good faith discussions, but Hexbear users only operate in bad faith, particularly by sealioning. Like clockwork, you don't engage in ideas but rather give reading assignments.
I've read Das Kapital and agree with virtually all the premises about how society is unfair to those who actually generate the surplus value and think that we need to fix a system that breaks cyclically, as Karl Marx correctly predicted in volume I. The only solutions I've seen presented are a total revolution a la 1917, which occured before globalization. Anything close to this in the current globalized world will kill at minimum hundreds of millions globally due to interdependence on products that Marx would consider "needs", such as medications and medical equipment like dialysis machines.
The difference between you and me is that I'd rather work to reestablish democracy away from capital interests. I don't want a dictatorship, I want a functional democracy. Propaganda is often used to disillusion the working class from democracy, and if you don't vote in elections then you are clearly part of the problem.
Edit: Lmao. Citing"theory" gets crickets from the people who endlessly say "you just haven't read theory". It's like they don't know what to do with someone who reads to understand, rather than "reading" just to virtue signal.
Debatebro? That's what Hexbear does best.
Hahaha, literally "I know you are but what am I"
reading" just to virtue signal.
Lmao peak angry chud solipsism. "I would never read except to lord it over others, so that must be what these commies are doing."
Cuba is your best example, however, it is a socialist state and not communism.
China has three stock exchanges and is not communist:
- http://english.sse.com.cn/
- http://www.bse.cn/
- https://www.szse.cn/English/index.html
The USSR never got to the "people's dictatorship", ya know, because the dictators never completed that step. Despite being a very powerful country at their peak, the USSR only exists as a memory of a failed state.
"The sky is green and I know you dumb neoliberal are going to try and tell me it's blue!"
How do you reconcile the fact that China has more stock exchanges than BurgerlandUSA?
Pretty hard to defend, so I expected you to claim bad faith and throw in the towel. Your Hexbear friends have better endurance and wit.
Ok, give me a call when we are about to start the people's revolution. My mom gave me enough money to get snacks for everyone.
You can keep waiting for the revolution, I'll keep working on getting democratic socialists elected.
We can compare notes on who made a bigger difference in a few decades.
How do you plan on implementing these strategies in 2023, in a country that has global hegemony and the ability to prevent a 1917? Crickets again
If course you would, like a good little authoritarian.
In my ideal society I’d give people like you the freedom you deserve.
This you?
She's probably like 16 dude chill and welcome to the Internet where people fling the most unhinged nonsense at each other without a second thought
An aggressive communist with no sense of how the world works could be a child? You're the most self aware Hexbear user.
Also lol to "dude chill". I'm not the one fantasizing about murdering people.
Nah the capitalist system you cheer for murders people just fine, Mr. Welfare-capitalism-is-actually-socialism
She's not here, do you want me to pop into that thread and chastise her for you?
My mind just boggles at the fact that anyone is taking this two bit reddit clone seriously enough to carry a grudge longer that the lifespan of a single thread.
welcome to the Internet where people fling the most unhinged nonsense at each other without a second thought
TIL I am internetting wrong lol.
For me personally, flinging unhinged shit at other users is tiring. I find it much easier to either be nice or abandon ship
because I simply said I supported democratic socialism.
so you promoted violence first?
i'm failing to see your complaint hereI support what are realistic policies actually will push the status quo in the direction you want.
Larping on the internet waiting for a revolution to occur seems like a nice fantasy.
There are numerous democratic socialists who are in Congress, you just aren't paying attention.
Run for office. There have been many spoilers from genuine grassroots campaigns. Don't want to do either? Keep coping and seething online.
The master's tools will never dismantle the master's house. Entryism always ends up changing the entrant instead of the system. We are revolutionary socialists.
It's clear you never studied US politics if you think that is remotely true. The Gilded Age and the Great Depression briefly pushed America away from corporate interests towards policy that benefited the working class. We averted overt fascism a la the Business Plot and the ratfucking that Smedley Butler disclosed while being the most badass anti-capitalist ever.
You're not a revolutionary socialist, you're a larper who won't do anything to better the world other than wait for this revolution like it's the second coming of Christ.
You guys are the QAnon of the left.
Present some options that have broad appeal and would be accepted by the proletariat. I don't know if you've looked around the US, but the voting proletariat generally find centrist policies to be "far left".
How do you have your people's revolution without the people?
I'm talking about Emmanuel Goldstein. Anyone I can possibly list will never meet your purity test.
Don't forget to send me a text when the revolution starts, comrade.
The purity test of having the wherewithal to oppose the economic system killing the earth and everyone on it.
I too support democratic socialism
Allende just needed more people's militias
I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but the Allende thing is more a US intervention problem that a democratic socialism problem. Certainly Mohammad Mosaddegh would agree.
Wow, you mean the US will just destroy you no matter how much you play by their rules, and that all that handwringing about evil communism is just bad-faith obfuscation from the world-eating vampire class to mislead their billions of victims? Wild.
So socialism, if it has any degree of democracy to it, which is kind of essential to socialism, is evil in your eyes.
What version of decision making is acceptable in socialism then?
Just one party rule?
Extreme violence is still violence. Industrial violence on a massive scale is still violence. You are advocating for violence, terrible violence, and then getting upset someone else advocated for comparatively mild violence.
this but unironically. please defederate from us
Death to America
Many instances have shit like hexbear federated, but have explicit rules on the side saying "no tankie shit". make it make sense.
Tankies aren't real Communists
Sucking the dick of authoritarian regimes does not make you communist
Heaven forbid an actually existing place on the planet actually make some real tangible gains for its people while necessarily suppressing threats
There's "threats" and there's "anyone remotely criticising the regime"
There are some tangible gains in these places but also significant losses for the freedoms and rights of their residents
Hell yeah there's that lib homophobia, 1 milimeter below the surface at all times
I'm bi but no go ahead, call me a homophobe for making a dick joke :p
Then you should know better than to be homophobic as a substitute for saying anything interesting. Self-reflection would probably help you to not embarass yourself in the future.
Why does it always go to homophobia with these types
Idk where the homophobia is, I'm partial to sucking the odd dick myself, just not Mao Zedong or Vladimir Putin :p
"umm actually I used it as an insult because it's a good thing!"
How do you people survive the cognitive dissonance necessary to convince yourself you're not being bigoted?
"you people"?
Besides, I'm not bigoted because I disagree with your ideology, my way of pointing that out may have been hyperbolic but certainly not bigoted
Yeah, you people, people who used homophobic insults about dick sucking but insist it's ok because they're gay/bi/have an LGBT friend.
I agree that you're not bigoted because you disagree with our ideology, but you are definitely bigoted for using bigoted insults to point it out.
I'm not communist, but I do observe that many of the existing "communist" states seem to be just authoritarianism disguised as the common good
yeah, exactly. which raises the question of why china specifically infuriates certain people to the exclusion of all other discussion.
Real Communism exists only in the pure and untouched ethereal plane of your mind palace.
Real communism also only exists within the walls of the Kremlin.
http://english.sse.com.cn/
Celebrating an increase in life expectancy from 30 to 40 years old is not remotely the win you think it is.
I'm celebrating the increase in life expectancy from 35 to higher than that of the US, actually, which is the win I think it is.
The point is not the immediate increase in that specific 5 year period, the point is the clear trend of rapid, long term increases after a long period of stagnation, with the pivitol turning point being exactly when the CPC came to power. You're supposed to look at the whole graph.
China never manipulates data coming out of their authoritarian country so good thing we can trust it. I'm sure their life expectancy is great with all their industrial pollution that regularly causes smog in their inner cities.
Here is my source do you have a source that disputes that? Or is your belief based entirely on unfalsifiable faith?
Also curious if you think Chinese life expectancy is still like 35 or what lmao
You may also be interested in what the World Bank, that infamous communist propaganda rag, has to say:
Over the past 40 years, the number of people in China with incomes below $1.90 per day – the International Poverty Line as defined by the World Bank to track global extreme poverty– has fallen by close to 800 million. With this, China has contributed close to three-quarters of the global reduction in the number of people living in extreme poverty.
No one in China is over 50. If you're over 50 in China they just shoot you, and then they lie and say they didn't.
Milton Friedman and Ayn Rand. In Fountainhead, she goes in depth about how Chinese life expectancy statistics are generally made up.
Milton Friedman and Ayn Rand
That's incredible, I honestly did not see that one coming.
So tell me, what's your best guess at what Chinese life expectancy was before the CPC came to power, and what do you think it is now? Do you dispute the numbers from before the communists were even in power? Or do you think they're still living in mud huts?
The Fountainhead is a novel about an American architect that has nothing to do with China. They're doing a weird bit, presumably about how evil tankies asking them to read books is cheating.
Yeah I got that, at least after they posted a rickroll. Guess being an idiot is a defense mechanism when they realized they had nothing.
Communism increasing life expectancy!?
Shanghai Stock Exchange: http://english.sse.com.cn/
Beijing Stock Exchange: www.bse.cn
Shenzhen Stock Exchange: https://www.szse.cn/English/index.html
That's more stock exchanges than the US, comrade!
Oh, so you consider Deng's reforms to be right-deviationist? Are you a Maoist, then?
Whether you consider the CPC to be communist or not, the fact still remains that they've made a lot of improvements in the lives of the average Chinese person.
Deng was alive and well when two of those stock exchanges were opened and the whole argument was "look at the improvements only possible under Communism".
How do you say "moving the goalposts" in Mandarin? Actually, no need to answer as you are all
suburbanpetit bourgeois kids from the US.Deng was alive and well when two of those stock exchanges were opened
That's... what I said? Obviously, Deng was the one who implemented economic reforms, such as opening stock exchanges and allowing foreign investment. Some Maoists consider this to be right-deviationist and counter-revolutionary, and that he should've continued more in line with Mao's policies. That's why I asked if you're a Maoist, since you consider his reforms incompatible with socialism.
I'm not sure who's whole argument was "look at the improvements only possible under Communism." China's conditions were much worse off than places like the US, so obviously it's possible to improve conditions to be better than per-revolutionary China (which is not saying much) without communism. It's just that in China's case, it was the communists that did it.
Mao died in 1976, which is where that life expectancy graph is somewhere in the mid 50s. Super impressive.
Over 60, actually. I think that doubling live expectancy over a single generation is, in fact, pretty impressive.
So I take it you're not a Maoist or a Dengist. Can you tell me who you think should've been in power in China instead? The KMT? You can see how much they did on the graph, if you don't find the CPC's numbers impressive then I'm sure you'd hate them even more. The invading Japanese perhaps? The European colonizers? Or maybe you think the Qing dynasty should never have been overthrown.
Correlation or causation? You know that industrialization increases life expectancy, right?
It's not hard to double your life expectancy when you're starting out with the same life expectancy that existed in the Roman Empire almost 2,000 years prior. Thanks, Mao!
Of course I know that, did you not read what I said?
"China's conditions were much worse off than places like the US, so obviously it's possible to improve conditions to be better than per-revolutionary China (which is not saying much) without communism."
It's not hard to double your life expectancy when you're starting out with the same life expectancy that existed in the Roman Empire almost 2,000 years prior. Thanks, Mao!
It really is wild that no other faction was willing to do anything that would increase Chinese life expectancy above that of the Roman Empire, yes. I agree, thanks, Mao!
It's pretty funny that you criticize Deng for implenting economic reforms that led to further industrialization, while also crediting the rise in life expectancy to that very same industrialization.
What even is your ideology? And can you answer my question about who should've come to power instead of the communists?
So you agree it has nothing to do with communism and you're just trolling around the internet. Got it.
I have no idea what thought process led you to post that but ok.
There were a lot of really simple, basic improvements that the peasants in China desperately needed. Anybody could've done what was needed, but nobody else was willing to, because nobody else cared. There was no special technical economic policy that uplifted them, it was just a willingness to address their needs that no other faction possessed.
The entire point of this brilliant thread is that communism, not individuals, lifted people out of poverty. Numerous economic systems have high life expectancy (socialist, capitalist, etc) and the common denominator is basically just industrialization.
Who would have thought the ability to make nation-state quantities of medication extends lives?
The entire point
That's all you fam, I never said anything like that. All I did was point to graph and say I liked it when people do things (and political projects) that make life expectancy skyrocket. You seem to have read a bunch of stuff into that.
I support whatever this is so idk what that makes me
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy
I'm assuming you equally support all those capitalist countries that have high life expectancies.
Samsung KoreaI mean South Korea with it's life expectancy of 84 years is generally considered a great society on Hexbear, no?Life expectancy doesn't always give the whole picture. For example, in my graph, there are times where China's life expectancy is rising very rapidly, but it was still considerably lower than that of other countries. It's necessary to analyze what policies lead to what results and what the reasons are for the success or failure of a given political project or policy.
I haven't studied South Korea's policies and material conditions closely enough to offer much of an informed analysis, as the world is a very big place. You could always make a thread about it on c/askchapo or something.
Life expectancy doesn’t always give the whole picture.
Could have saved us a lot of time, going all the way back to the post where you used life expectancy to try to paint a whole picture.
Just because it doesn't paint the full picture doesn't mean it isn't important. The data in this case shows some very clear conclusions.
Sometimes I try to post more in depth theory, the last time I tried that, everyone complained that it was TLDR.
I mean this genuinely - It seems like you're one of the more reasonable Hexbear users, just for saying this alone:
I haven’t studied South Korea’s policies and material conditions closely enough to offer much of an informed analysis, as the world is a very big place.
Intelligence is always knowing where your current knowledge ends. I don't have all the answers to everything either and it's easier to engage in discussion when both participants know their limitations, which is the bare minimum required for a good faith discussion. Virtually all other Hexbear users double down and go on the offensive when they are hit with something they don't know about, which is why I've developed a particular disdain for users from your instance and refrain from substantial engagement because it always devolves into sealioning. The only way I have found to engage with users from your instance is reflexively using their own debate strategies otherwise I'm constantly told I "don't know anything unless I've read insert-book-of-the-week".
I used South Korea because it's pretty much worse than the US in every regard. My joke, "Samsung Korea", wasn't an ignorant American's take thinking all they make are cell phones, rather, Samsung is basically at the top of their oligarchy and has more control over their government than US corporations, believe it or not. South Korea has one of the best life expectancies, but is one of the worse examples of capitalism.
I think your problem is that you jump to conclusions too quickly. I think you'll have better luck with Hexbears if you slow down and make sure you actually understand what our point is instead of just trying to win before you have a clear picture of what the other person's position is.
Oh well, double down I guess. A prominant Hexbear community is called "Dunking On Libs", which, as we both know, is going to other instances where they engage in "jumping to conclusions" and "just trying to win".
You almost had self awareness. Almost.
I'll leave you with what I wrote in my last post:
The only way I have found to engage with users from your instance is reflexively using their own debate strategies
I can't speak for every user on my instance (nor can you for yours), but I can say that many of us also respond in kind to what we get. When you tried to dunk on me, you got PPB'd. You'll get the same if you lob baseless accusations (like calling us "the QAnon of the left") or confidently assert bad, uninformed takes.
You can laugh, but communist oppression is no laughing matter. Please see this article where Ben Shapiro writes a thesis-level takedown of the mythos of Chinese life expectancy.
Please, I've read that article countless times. Here is a response that breaks down all the flaws in his argument.
No don't bother linking your dumb policies that you guys never abide by.
I'm merely acting reflexively to the behaviors I constantly observe from Hexbear users.
No, but whenever you guys get "dunked on", you compulsively link to it like a goddamned Manchurian candidate.
I'm just gonna say, if you're still posting rickrolls in 2023, you don't have a lot of room to talk about unoriginal bits.
It's impossible to engage in good faith debates with what is essentially the QAnon of the left.
QAnon, well known for being able to provide evidence for their beliefs from credible sources.
Aren't you the one that's more like QAnon, since you're going purely off vibes and faith?
Aren’t you the one that’s more like QAnon, since you’re going purely off vibes and faith?
"no, u"
I haven't seen that movie, does a pig shit on its own balls?
Serious question - is that normal for pigs or is something wrong with it?
You just didn't bother clicking that Benny Shaps link, did ya?
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/dQw4w9WgXcQ?si=KTi-2uYeRb6E8_cS
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
My god he can't read a graph. How has our educational system been allowed to fail for this long?
I'm not committed at all to China as the salvation of the communist project, but it's exactly this sort of self-imposed illiteracy and ignorance, and nearly religious faith in the inferiority and duplicity of The Orient that makes me default to distrusting anything negative a cracker says about it.
Comrade, I also blindly trust any graph as dear leader would have it.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Trump_holding_altered_Dorian_forecast_map.png/800px-Trump_holding_altered_Dorian_forecast_map.png
let's skip to the end of the discussion: I say "that's not anything like what I said." you say "yes but you believe those statistics are true???" I say "do you have any good evidence that they're fabricated, and that the life expectancy in China is actually still hovering around 40?" you beg the question, possibly implying that Chinese people are inherently untrustworthy, and accuse me of supporting genocide. There is nothing I can say to you that will instill an ounce of critical thinking ability in you.
I mean all Hexbear links are essentially the Pravda. It doesn't help when you guys treat Wikipedia like it's somehow the same as conservapedia.com
I don't think census data compiled and verified by the UN DESA is Pravda, a publication which does not exist anymore. I quite like Wikipedia and I think it's a very good way to get a quick introductory understanding of a topic which you've just learned about. In this case it prints a similar graph citing the same data, so I don't know why you would mention it to support your strange argument that China's life expectancy has not significantly improved under communism.
It's not even that outrageous a thing to believe, but you demand that I presume it false because believing that China is a normal country opens the door to believing a whole bunch of other scary things.
Why are you pretending like China is communist when they have several stock exchanges? Is that where you exchange MarxBux?
Shanghai Stock Exchange: http://english.sse.com.cn/
Beijing Stock Exchange: www.bse.cn
Shenzhen Stock Exchange: https://www.szse.cn/English/index.html
That's more stock exchanges than the US, comrade!
I don't really care whether or not China is communist, or if other people think it's communist for various esoteric reasons. It doesn't effect me either way. State Department propaganda and warmongering does effect me though.
Of course you don't care if it is communist. Communism was never the point. Mask comes off that you guys are just authoritarians masquerading as glorious revolutionaries.
No, I'm not Chinese. China is not important to my politics at all. That's like the first thing I said if you scroll up.
All of Hexbear is suburban US kids so of course I knew you didn't live in any of these glorious peoples republics.
Careful calling those regimes authoritarian. Hexbears like to attack this point by assigning a slightly different definition to authoritarian and then either (a) claim that all governments are "authoritarian" or (b) blame liberals for using this word to demonize socialist states. I once saw someone cite https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Authoritarianism to "prove" that those states are not authoritarian.
Not by "assigning a slightly different definition", just by applying the definition consistently, rather than using the
standard.Ah yes, doge-firefox, please tell me how consistent your beliefs are lmao
I strawmanned ad hominined logical fallacied all over them.
It's worse than just that. They argue that acknowledgement of Stalin's atrocities is Holocaust denial.
They are so scared and insecure they will lash out against anything that slightly challenges their beliefs. If they post sources it will be misreadings of fringe groups, or conveniently ignoring facts. Like how they believe tiananmen square wasn't a big deal because the China killed about 300 people a mile away. Or how Cuba is a utopia even though it's citizens chose to get run over by the coast guard instead of living there.
They argue that acknowledgement of Stalin's atrocities is Holocaust denial.
No, we argue that equating the bad things the soviet union did to the holocaust is holocaust trivialization, which is a take from mainstream liberal historians. Because the bad things the soviet union did were tiny compared to the holocaust and pretty tame compared to the other Allies.
As ever, actual Jewish Holocaust scholars agree with us
https://jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory
easy solution: your definition of tankie shit is so incredibly broad that it includes anything to the left of the US Democratic party
?
