Read the books for LOGH. The author explicitly denounces liberalism. He was (is?) a card carrying member of the party.
If it helps, the point of the show is that the society presents us the choice between a corruptable democratic liberal society that claims meritocracy vs the feudal Prussian inspired system where birth matters second most and winning battles conquers birth.
The core of the show is that liberalism vs feudalism is an unresolved issue that is ultimately supplanted by the later government (no spoilers here)
Read the books for LOGH. The author explicitly denounces liberalism. He was (is?) a card carrying member of the party.
Goddamn. The show 100% feels like it's saying "well sure under democracy there are some problems but it's the best system we have". Is the spoiler related to something that takes place after the show or?
I have to ask, did you watch the original AND the bonus content + movies? Or did you watch only part of that or the remakes (the remakes are awesome too and actually follow the books more closely regarding the parts covered)
I highly recommend the 50~ish side story episodes. Some of them are really good. One of them is part of an arc goes into the lives of people on a planet that is occupied during one of the main arcs. It has some based organizing vibes.
Edit: but in general they go deeper into how both are portrayed as broken. The stalemate only ends once something that addresses the contradictions within democracy.
I remember having a GREAT time with the gaiden eps too. The hard sci-fi really shines there, like that ep with the crewman doing hull repairs near a sun, or the ice planet ones (prismatic ice crystal blood coming out of the exo-suit was so cool). And I liked how Yang got some time to examine the structural cruelties of warfare alongside his skewering of great man history stuff with his investigation into that alliance admiral.
Edit: oh shit how could I forget the history doc episodes from the main series? The story that part tells was almost better than the main storyline tbh
I liked the hints of DiaMat that snuck into Yang’s history passion.
The prequel movie has some good hard sci-fi stuff too! The atmosphere of a gas giant is used to do something (forgot what) but Inremember it being clever.
That's the impression I always got from LoGH, even when I assumed it was ultimately a liberal tale, the writer followed things at such a granular level of detail that I assumed he was stumbling his way into a materialist reading when I saw evidence of it.
If I am to imagine LoGH as a fully libbed up glorification of papa fascism, in the style of plenty of other political operas of its type, even then it's an honest depiction of a common liberal mindset which is revealing and compelling in its own way. That's how I originally viewed the show: liberal in its ideology but diligent and committed enough to a historical "realism" that it depicts all of the failings and structural conflicts of that ideology, all while adopting that Three Kingdoms-styled "ever onward is the march of history" narrative voice so that it can critique itself while not having to reconcile what it's actually saying about itself.
But if the writer is as lefty as you are saying, then it becomes a piece of seriously crunchy drama analysing the false choice between liberalism and fascism, which sounds more believable coming from a Japanese writer the more I think about it. A Japanese writer, I imagine, would have to be pretty cryptic about how they present leftist ideology, considering the political status of Japan. Miyazaki did that, so now I'm hopeful LoGH is part of that too
Would you mind explaining the 3K bit? I’m unfortunately rather ignorant about the relationship between the ROT3K and historical analysis of the period.
An important detail: the author has walked back. Less radical with age, a familiar tragedy. But undisputed as formerly a member of the party.
Lol yep, same thing happened with Miyazaki, perhaps to a lesser degree.
As for the three kingdoms, the opening poem in it says "The empire, long divided, must unite; long united, must divide." Now, the Romance of the Three Kingdoms is a pretty lofty work of literature so there are deeper analyses out there, but it's an example of that narrative voice that says "this stuff just happens, man" instead of taking some kind of stance.
(Considering its place as one of the "three great works" of Chinese literature I'm sure it's more intelligent than I'm making it sound but you get the idea)
Read the books for LOGH. The author explicitly denounces liberalism. He was (is?) a card carrying member of the party.
If it helps, the point of the show is that the society presents us the choice between a corruptable democratic liberal society that claims meritocracy vs the feudal Prussian inspired system where birth matters second most and winning battles conquers birth.
The core of the show is that liberalism vs feudalism is an unresolved issue that is ultimately supplanted by the later government (no spoilers here)
Goddamn. The show 100% feels like it's saying "well sure under democracy there are some problems but it's the best system we have". Is the spoiler related to something that takes place after the show or?
I have to ask, did you watch the original AND the bonus content + movies? Or did you watch only part of that or the remakes (the remakes are awesome too and actually follow the books more closely regarding the parts covered)
Watched the 110-episode OVA and that's it.
I highly recommend the 50~ish side story episodes. Some of them are really good. One of them is part of an arc goes into the lives of people on a planet that is occupied during one of the main arcs. It has some based organizing vibes.
Edit: but in general they go deeper into how both are portrayed as broken. The stalemate only ends once something that addresses the contradictions within democracy.
LOGH WRITER WASNT A LIB?????
Gotta rewatch it right the fuck now without my lib-filter online, best news I've heard all month god damn
My sibling in communism, this is a pet obsession of mine. Read the books. The author is as communist as you can be without outright saying it.
I would enjoy discussing the episodes with you from a communist lens. Maybe hexbeartube should do a viewing session or something.
Hexbear watching LoGH would be pretty cool, it covers so many topics that posters here would have something to say about.
Got a fav episode of the show? I remember enjoying the one about the bedridden kid who tries to blow up Reinhard and his admirals at a party
It’s early on in the series, but the coup episode shows just how easily liberalism turns to fascism.
Episodes 82-83 because of the 1-2 punch of Y dying and then everyone reacting to it.
It’s hard to choose just one because the space battles really shine during corridor arc.
I remember having a GREAT time with the gaiden eps too. The hard sci-fi really shines there, like that ep with the crewman doing hull repairs near a sun, or the ice planet ones (prismatic ice crystal blood coming out of the exo-suit was so cool). And I liked how Yang got some time to examine the structural cruelties of warfare alongside his skewering of great man history stuff with his investigation into that alliance admiral.
Edit: oh shit how could I forget the history doc episodes from the main series? The story that part tells was almost better than the main storyline tbh
I liked the hints of DiaMat that snuck into Yang’s history passion.
The prequel movie has some good hard sci-fi stuff too! The atmosphere of a gas giant is used to do something (forgot what) but Inremember it being clever.
That's the impression I always got from LoGH, even when I assumed it was ultimately a liberal tale, the writer followed things at such a granular level of detail that I assumed he was stumbling his way into a materialist reading when I saw evidence of it.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s the Japanese version of Asimov’s foundation, but it’s close enough given how little content like that there is.
The books are better on that front, but the show and the OVA series really knocked it out of the park on everything else.
Glad I’m not the only fan here, I felt like people would judge it as monarchist or something.
If I am to imagine LoGH as a fully libbed up glorification of papa fascism, in the style of plenty of other political operas of its type, even then it's an honest depiction of a common liberal mindset which is revealing and compelling in its own way. That's how I originally viewed the show: liberal in its ideology but diligent and committed enough to a historical "realism" that it depicts all of the failings and structural conflicts of that ideology, all while adopting that Three Kingdoms-styled "ever onward is the march of history" narrative voice so that it can critique itself while not having to reconcile what it's actually saying about itself.
But if the writer is as lefty as you are saying, then it becomes a piece of seriously crunchy drama analysing the false choice between liberalism and fascism, which sounds more believable coming from a Japanese writer the more I think about it. A Japanese writer, I imagine, would have to be pretty cryptic about how they present leftist ideology, considering the political status of Japan. Miyazaki did that, so now I'm hopeful LoGH is part of that too
Would you mind explaining the 3K bit? I’m unfortunately rather ignorant about the relationship between the ROT3K and historical analysis of the period.
An important detail: the author has walked back. Less radical with age, a familiar tragedy. But undisputed as formerly a member of the party.
Lol yep, same thing happened with Miyazaki, perhaps to a lesser degree.
As for the three kingdoms, the opening poem in it says "The empire, long divided, must unite; long united, must divide." Now, the Romance of the Three Kingdoms is a pretty lofty work of literature so there are deeper analyses out there, but it's an example of that narrative voice that says "this stuff just happens, man" instead of taking some kind of stance.
(Considering its place as one of the "three great works" of Chinese literature I'm sure it's more intelligent than I'm making it sound but you get the idea)