you can selfishly want the anti-american governments to stay in power to oppose your country. also honduras is a western country too lmao
Yes this is exactly the point being made here. Its not even selfish. Its just how Lenininst antiimperalism works. Wanting American hegenomy to be hurt as an American is actually the opposite of selfish?
Also for the last line, yes its in the western hemisphere but its not part of the imperial core. Which is why we carefully use that language instead. The tem "western" is fairly useless for this reason.
You are probably thinking about the foundations of leninism by stalin, specifically the chapter on the national question.
Relevant section being:
The same must be said of the revolutionary character of national movements in general. The unquestionably revolutionary character of the vast majority of national movements is as relative and peculiar as is the possible revolutionary character of certain particular national movements. The revolutionary character of a national movement under the conditions of imperialist oppression does not necessarily presuppose the existence of proletarian elements in the movement, the existence of a revolutionary or a republican programme of the movement, the existence of a democratic basis of the movement. The struggle that the Emir of Afghanistan is waging for the independence of Afghanistan is objectively a revolutionary struggle, despite the monarchist views of the Emir and his associates, for it weakens, disintegrates and undermines imperialism; whereas the struggle waged by such "desperate" democrats and "Socialists," "revolutionaries" and republicans as, for example, Kerensky and Tsereteli, Renaudel and Scheidemann, Chernov and Dan, Henderson and Clynes, during the imperialist war was a reactionary struggle, for its results was the embellishment, the strengthening, the victory, of imperialism. For the same reasons, the struggle that the Egyptians merchants and bourgeois intellectuals are waging for the independence of Egypt is objectively a revolutionary struggle, despite the bourgeois origin and bourgeois title of the leaders of Egyptian national movement, despite the fact that they are opposed to socialism; whereas the struggle that the British "Labour" Government is waging to preserve Egypt's dependent position is for the same reason a reactionary struggle, despite the proletarian origin and the proletarian title of the members of the government, despite the fact that they are "for" socialism. There is no need to mention the national movement in other, larger, colonial and dependent countries, such as India and China, every step of which along the road to liberation, even if it runs counter to the demands of formal democracy, is a steam-hammer blow at imperialism, i.e., is undoubtedly a revolutionary step.
Lenin was right in saying that the national movement of the oppressed countries should be appraised not from the point of view of formal democracy, but from the point of view of the actual results, as shown by the general balance sheet of the struggle against imperialism, that is to say, "not in isolation, but on a world scale"
Revolutionary defeatism means opposing your own nation, not “both sidesing”. In effect, that means lesser of two evils thinking is inherent to revolutionary defeatism. I get if you are allergic to moralistic phrasing of the concept, but it does ultimately come down to destroying ones own empire above all else because it's what you have understanding of and any ability to influence. Which, when speaking of global events, de facto forces any Americans or westoids to first and foremost prioritize targeting "the greater evil" of the Anglo-American empire.
Biden is an imperialist. Why would opposing one's own empire lead to supporting one's own imperialists? Do you hear yourself? America is the "greater evil". Any pro-America bourgious politician of any stripe is an enemy and the "greater evil". The "lesser evil" is foreign influence and stuff like Russian money to spread anti-western propaganda (such as Richard Medhurst or Ben Norton do most likely)
you need to reread lenin he never said anything about “imperial core” that’s just stuff made up by wallerstein called world-systems theory and is neither leninist or marxist
see I’m gonna trust lenin and marx over a yale and colombia professor who only has ties to the british. zero ML countries adhere to world-systems theory and for good reasons
depends country to country at different points in time. obviously first i’d have to ask who’s side you were on in the sino-soviet split just as a baseline. or to go further, whether or not you support stalin’s decision to recognize and send aid to israel when it declared independence
Im not sure where i stand on those things need to read more. Just want to know where those countries stand today and how it contradicts the concept of an "imperial core"
the countries don’t exactly deliver press releases saying what imperialism is usually they just say “down with yankee imperialism”. do you want something like a curriculum on how the subject is taught in school? how these countries actually act?
Well you said they dont world systems theory so i assumed you had evidence of that. Saying "down with yankee imperialism" is hardly contradictory. They might not literally read Wallerstein but if youre going to deny his development of theory and its applicability to modern conditions (that Marx and Lenin never observed) based on what you think the DPRK and Cuba think about it i would assume youd have something more solid.
Che said that the United States is the belly of the beast. That certainly seems in line.
the onus is not on my proving they don’t follow some esoteric sociological theory of a foreign professor but on you to prove that they do. and no che using poetic license is not proof of a communist country following a hundreds of page long dissertation. next you’ll say iran follows it too since it says israel little satan and america big satan
I literally said that they may not read Wallerstein. The point is that the broad strokes are not contradictory to the concept of an imperial core existing. I was looking for ideas that actually materially contradict here. Honestly, i dont think you need to follow all of Wallerstein to use the term imperial core. If its useful for describing the current geopolitical situation, which i think it is, then its useful.
Honestly this all just seems like a nitpick to throw me off base. None of it contradicts my core points.
marxism isn’t about what feels useful and isn’t about what’s geopolitically common sense from your perspective. if you oppose communists overthrowing the government in my country and support the demsocs who want to continue capitalist relations and exploitation I don’t consider you a comrade in the same struggle, to put it as simply as possible
Literally what the fuck are you talking about, you've gone on for a dozen posts fixated on autism dragon's use of "imperial core" as a shorthand to describe key Western countries
When did i say anything about opposing communists overthrowing them lol? I support them against the west, not against communists. Youre reading things in that arent there, perhaps because of prior experiance?
Yes this is exactly the point being made here. Its not even selfish. Its just how Lenininst antiimperalism works. Wanting American hegenomy to be hurt as an American is actually the opposite of selfish?
Also for the last line, yes its in the western hemisphere but its not part of the imperial core. Which is why we carefully use that language instead. The tem "western" is fairly useless for this reason.
It's "useless" because only people who live in the west know what it actually means: western and white
Or in other words, European (minus Russia)
Non-white people who live outside of the US/Northern Europe don't know. They're playing checkers while everyone else is playing chess lol
lesser of the two evilism has NOTHING to do with Lenin keep his name out of your mouth before actually opening a book for once
Sorry im taking my lead here from every ML ive ever encountered's opinion on geopolitics. If its ignorant i apologize.
Eta: honestly based on your post history i dont see you as someone i have to take particularly seriously lol
You are probably thinking about the foundations of leninism by stalin, specifically the chapter on the national question.
Relevant section being:
The same must be said of the revolutionary character of national movements in general. The unquestionably revolutionary character of the vast majority of national movements is as relative and peculiar as is the possible revolutionary character of certain particular national movements. The revolutionary character of a national movement under the conditions of imperialist oppression does not necessarily presuppose the existence of proletarian elements in the movement, the existence of a revolutionary or a republican programme of the movement, the existence of a democratic basis of the movement. The struggle that the Emir of Afghanistan is waging for the independence of Afghanistan is objectively a revolutionary struggle, despite the monarchist views of the Emir and his associates, for it weakens, disintegrates and undermines imperialism; whereas the struggle waged by such "desperate" democrats and "Socialists," "revolutionaries" and republicans as, for example, Kerensky and Tsereteli, Renaudel and Scheidemann, Chernov and Dan, Henderson and Clynes, during the imperialist war was a reactionary struggle, for its results was the embellishment, the strengthening, the victory, of imperialism. For the same reasons, the struggle that the Egyptians merchants and bourgeois intellectuals are waging for the independence of Egypt is objectively a revolutionary struggle, despite the bourgeois origin and bourgeois title of the leaders of Egyptian national movement, despite the fact that they are opposed to socialism; whereas the struggle that the British "Labour" Government is waging to preserve Egypt's dependent position is for the same reason a reactionary struggle, despite the proletarian origin and the proletarian title of the members of the government, despite the fact that they are "for" socialism. There is no need to mention the national movement in other, larger, colonial and dependent countries, such as India and China, every step of which along the road to liberation, even if it runs counter to the demands of formal democracy, is a steam-hammer blow at imperialism, i.e., is undoubtedly a revolutionary step.
Lenin was right in saying that the national movement of the oppressed countries should be appraised not from the point of view of formal democracy, but from the point of view of the actual results, as shown by the general balance sheet of the struggle against imperialism, that is to say, "not in isolation, but on a world scale"
Revolutionary defeatism means opposing your own nation, not “both sidesing”. In effect, that means lesser of two evils thinking is inherent to revolutionary defeatism. I get if you are allergic to moralistic phrasing of the concept, but it does ultimately come down to destroying ones own empire above all else because it's what you have understanding of and any ability to influence. Which, when speaking of global events, de facto forces any Americans or westoids to first and foremost prioritize targeting "the greater evil" of the Anglo-American empire.
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Biden is an imperialist. Why would opposing one's own empire lead to supporting one's own imperialists? Do you hear yourself? America is the "greater evil". Any pro-America bourgious politician of any stripe is an enemy and the "greater evil". The "lesser evil" is foreign influence and stuff like Russian money to spread anti-western propaganda (such as Richard Medhurst or Ben Norton do most likely)
you need to reread lenin he never said anything about “imperial core” that’s just stuff made up by wallerstein called world-systems theory and is neither leninist or marxist
Because in their times there were still competing imperial powers. There wasnt unipolarity at the time.
see I’m gonna trust lenin and marx over a yale and colombia professor who only has ties to the british. zero ML countries adhere to world-systems theory and for good reasons
Cuba and the DPRK dont see the United States as an imperial hegemon?
I don’t think either call it hegemonism that’s a chinese thing and even then there’s a big leap going from hegemonism to imperial core
So what is the view of imperialism in ML countries and how does it contradicr?
depends country to country at different points in time. obviously first i’d have to ask who’s side you were on in the sino-soviet split just as a baseline. or to go further, whether or not you support stalin’s decision to recognize and send aid to israel when it declared independence
Im not sure where i stand on those things need to read more. Just want to know where those countries stand today and how it contradicts the concept of an "imperial core"
the countries don’t exactly deliver press releases saying what imperialism is usually they just say “down with yankee imperialism”. do you want something like a curriculum on how the subject is taught in school? how these countries actually act?
Well you said they dont world systems theory so i assumed you had evidence of that. Saying "down with yankee imperialism" is hardly contradictory. They might not literally read Wallerstein but if youre going to deny his development of theory and its applicability to modern conditions (that Marx and Lenin never observed) based on what you think the DPRK and Cuba think about it i would assume youd have something more solid.
Che said that the United States is the belly of the beast. That certainly seems in line.
the onus is not on my proving they don’t follow some esoteric sociological theory of a foreign professor but on you to prove that they do. and no che using poetic license is not proof of a communist country following a hundreds of page long dissertation. next you’ll say iran follows it too since it says israel little satan and america big satan
I literally said that they may not read Wallerstein. The point is that the broad strokes are not contradictory to the concept of an imperial core existing. I was looking for ideas that actually materially contradict here. Honestly, i dont think you need to follow all of Wallerstein to use the term imperial core. If its useful for describing the current geopolitical situation, which i think it is, then its useful.
Honestly this all just seems like a nitpick to throw me off base. None of it contradicts my core points.
marxism isn’t about what feels useful and isn’t about what’s geopolitically common sense from your perspective. if you oppose communists overthrowing the government in my country and support the demsocs who want to continue capitalist relations and exploitation I don’t consider you a comrade in the same struggle, to put it as simply as possible
Literally what the fuck are you talking about, you've gone on for a dozen posts fixated on autism dragon's use of "imperial core" as a shorthand to describe key Western countries
key at what? what are you trying to say with it as a term?
When did i say anything about opposing communists overthrowing them lol? I support them against the west, not against communists. Youre reading things in that arent there, perhaps because of prior experiance?
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wrong
dprk: http://www.kcna.kp/en/article/q/90dfd7983762c4e09ba086c93f6c58b7.kcmsf
cuba: https://cubaminrex.cu/en/diaz-canel-there-historically-postponed-world-waiting-our-agreement-and-action
there's a ton of material released by the WPK and the PCC that talks about american hegemony
I’m going to trust the DPRK who have never been wrong over leftcom ultras who consistently get it wrong