Now that I’ve caught you with the clickbait title,

Basically every post has included some form of toxic self-hate, minus one or two mentioning exercise. While I do like being able to confront these in the first place, the purported goals and name of this community gives people who are giving the exact wrong advice far too much credibility, and the last thing these people need is a comment with the most upbears regurgitating individualistic self-help concepts at them.

If we’re going to keep this sort of community around, I suggest doing some serious research and basing it off of DBT, and integrating serious critiques of CBT style mental healthcare and improvement.

I am just some random nerd who is terrible at self-improvement at general, so I understand taking this with some serious doubt. But I just had to get this off my chest.

Thank you, WithoutFurtherBelay

  • iie [they/them, he/him]
    ·
    10 months ago

    I'm a bit late to this thread

    basically every post has included some form of toxic self-hate

    they already felt that way. that is where they're coming from.

    the purported goals and name of this community gives people who are giving the exact wrong advice far too much credibility

    this is pretty vague, and a lot of the comments here are also pretty vague, which is understandable but it risks a false consensus.

    revolutionary_behavior

    it's not immediately clear, to someone browsing the comm list, what that comm would be about. Unless the comm is frequently on the front page of the site and people see enough posts to infer what the comm is about, they will be guessing until they decide to click through to the comm and read the side bar.

    regurgitating individualistic self-help concepts

    here is the meat of my criticism

    yes, our broken society put us where we are, and we should put that blame where it belongs, but don't overcorrect in the other direction. Usually there are things individuals can do to improve their situations, both on their own and by finding community, and often there are barriers to them finding community that they must address first as an individual. If our society is broken and does not help us, sometimes we do need to help ourselves.

    if you're depressed, which is most of us, it is dangerous to hear that there is nothing you can do as an individual. You already feel apathetic, helpless, and anhedonic, it's too easy to believe a message like that. You don't see anyone riding in on a horse to rescue you any time soon. You have no social support network other than this website and maybe a couple friends you have already withdrawn from and feel unworthy to be around. If anyone changes your situation, at least initially, it will be you. For you to take that step, you have to believe it leads somewhere, you have to believe there is something you can do to improve your situation on your own.

    • WithoutFurtherBelay
      hexagon
      ·
      edit-2
      10 months ago

      Under no circumstance does individualistic self-help concepts being incorrect mean that you are helpless. Working towards bettering one’s life so you’re happier is something that does not require blaming oneself, and it requires an understanding of the material circumstances that are affecting you in the first place.

      A holistic understand of improving oneself doesn’t imply complete helplessness, but a more pragmatic perspective, where you change your environment to then change yourself indirectly.

      It doesn’t mean that it is impossible to change yourself, it means that it requires actual analysis and not just Willpower

      • iie [they/them, he/him]
        ·
        edit-2
        10 months ago

        that does not require blaming oneself

        requires actual analysis and not just willpower

        Right, this is the issue, but I don't think self-blame is baked into the name self_improvement.

        change your environment to then change yourself indirectly

        There's a feedback loop between your thinking and behavior and your environment, it's chicken and egg, it's a dialectic. Where to intervene in that loop is a case-by-case question. Sometimes you do have to start with the thinking and behavior. More often it'll be a mix of both environmental and internal work — you start with whatever changes you can make immediately in either category, and then work up to other changes that might have prerequisite conditions. Whatever your situation, often the first step is to decide to make a change, which is an internal decision that comes from deep inside you and is an expression of agency.

        • WithoutFurtherBelay
          hexagon
          ·
          edit-2
          10 months ago

          Your body is a system, not an anime power you can make start up by thinking hard enough. Sure, “willpower” is sometimes required, but laziness is not real. That’s the root of this.

          Of course it’s a chicken and egg situation. You have the ability to change your circumstances in small ways BECAUSE it’s a chicken and egg situation.

          Right, this is the issue, but I don't think self-blame is baked into the name self_improvement.

          It isn’t, and I’ve already (implicitly, sorry I’ve been bad at clarifying this) ceded that we shouldn’t change the name, but our general cultural conception of self improvement is pretty individualistic and that’s what people think when they hear those words.

          • iie [they/them, he/him]
            ·
            edit-2
            10 months ago

            Your body is a system, not an anime power you can make start up by thinking hard enough

            you're reducing it to a question of willpower, but people can have maladaptive beliefs, attitudes, and patterns of thinking that can get in the way of them taking steps to change their situations. I don't think that's such a silly idea that you can compare it to an anime powerup.

            • WithoutFurtherBelay
              hexagon
              ·
              10 months ago

              Yes, true, but people don’t really seem to be talking about that when they talk about motivation or most individual perspectives. I do not disagree that those are factors at all.