Inspired by recent discussions, I think Hexbear has a lot of good information about socialism but I wonder if the relentless defense of AES on Hexbear means shooting ourselves in the foot, since many potential leftists have been thoroughly primed to react negatively to AES states?

We’re not getting our messages out when progressive instances have already pre-emptively blocked us and calling us “tankies”.

People are being turned away without even taking the opportunity to read some of the stuff here, because they already have a pre-conceived notion about Hexbear being filled with “crazy tankies who defend totalitarianism”.

I know there have been a lot of propaganda and fabrication being perpetuated about socialist countries, and it feels “right” to defend them against these false accusations, but I wonder if this is doing more harm than good for the present day nascent socialist movement, at least in the Western countries?

We can remain on the current course and feel indignant about the tankie accusations, but will forever remain as a niche “tankie” community.

Or, we can open ourselves up, by toning down the admiration for the socialist states so we are not being treated as hostile by the other instances, and thus opening up the opportunities to have productive interactions with users (and potential leftists) from other instances?

(I do have my own position, you probably know which one it is, but I’m willing to hear from others and reevaluate my own opinions if needed).

EDIT: Thanks to everyone who responded. All points are well taken. Thank you.

  • impartial_fanboy [he/him]
    ·
    6 months ago

    I think hammering the point that AES were/are real places full of real people who did many good things but also made mistakes is important, because it's true. The reflexive (i.e. uncritical) defending of AES states, in particular China, is understandable due to the uncritical attacking the MSM does constantly but it's not helpful. You can't win just by doing the same thing your enemy does but opposite/inverted.

    This requires actually knowing what AES states did and are doing, which most here don't. Not saying I do either but I know enough to know that most here know even less. But it goes back to the purpose of this 'community', should it be for teaching theory and preaching socialism or should it just be a place for terminally online leftists (in the broadest possible definition) to shoot the shit and commiserate over the world falling apart? Obviously due to the nature of the internet, the latter is the most likely/possible.

    • DivineChaos100 [none/use name]
      ·
      6 months ago

      You're right but most people here can't even admit that the crackdown in hungary was a gross abuse of power, for example. Until then "the point that AES were/are real places full of real people who did many good things but also made mistakes is important" is completely moot.

      I'm not writing this to start an argument about Hungary btw, no one's gonna convince me about it.

      • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]
        ·
        6 months ago

        most people here can't even admit that the crackdown in hungary was a gross abuse of power

        Of course we don't admit that because it wasn't. What's your next example going to be? The Holodomor?

        Until then "the point that AES were/are real places full of real people who did many good things but also made mistakes is important" is completely moot

        Until we admit to something that isn't true?

        I'm not writing this to start an argument about Hungary btw, no one's gonna convince me about it.

        I don't care about convincing you, but there's no way you're dropping a take that hot without push back