I keep seeing posts from this instance referring to capitalists as liberals. Since when are capitalism and liberalism related? As far as I've always known, liberalism is a social ideology, while capitalism is an economic system.

Why do y'all refer to all capitalists as liberals when at least half (probably more, at least in my experience) are conservatives?

I, for example, consider myself a liberal, but I'm most certainly not a capitalist. I'm stuck in a capitalist society in which I have to play by the rules if I want to feed my family, but that's as far as my support for the system goes. I'm pretty sure a lot of Americans feel this way.

Looking it up, the definition of liberalism specifies a belief in maximum personal freedom, especially as guaranteed by a government. Considering that 90% of governments in the world are endlessly corrupt, capitalist or not, I'd much prefer one that guarantees its citizens rights as a matter of course rather than begrudgingly grants them privileges that can be taken away without public oversight.

Do y'all really trust your governments to look after your best interests? As a U.S. American, I know I wouldn't trust my government or politicians to do anything but enrich themselves at my expense, but I don't have to; my rights are guaranteed by our constitution.

Now if we could just get them to stop funding and committing genocide...

EDIT: So many incredibly well thought-out and researched responses! I have a lot of reading and thinking to do, so thank you all for your input. I'll likely be referring back to this post for a while as I learn more about the world outside my U.S.-centric bubble. My biggest takeaways from all this after a quick perusal of the replies are that liberalism has a very different meaning outside the U.S. and has a lot more to do with private property, especially land ownership, than I'd thought.

My time is limited and there are so many responses that I likely won't be replying to (m)any any time soon, but know that I appreciate all the knowledge bombs y'all have dropped.

  • Lemmygradwontallowme [he/him, comrade/them]
    ·
    9 months ago

    Why do y'all refer to all capitalists as liberals when at least half (probably more, at least in my experience) are conservatives?

    Unless you're telling me that a conservative here means someone who wants to return to the feudal ages, all conservatives are liberals by my own guidelines, look further more down.

    Also, you seem to be concerned with liberal human rights, so check on my spoiler beforehand if you will, for explanation

    On human rights, individualism, freedoms et all that

    spoiler

    Note on foreign policy:

    If you should notice, a lot of what liberalism proposes, 'human rights', 'democracy', 'freedom', those are abstract notions in itself, which I think it's definitely intended to be vague and encompassing as so...

    It's fine if you want "freedom of speech" or "freedom of religion", but the moment Western non-governmental organizations and western states use them to rile up calls for regime change and revert a country's path awat from anti-imperialism, anti-capitalism, anti-reactionary policies, if not all combined, because they're oppressing the old regime or the liberals are trying to implant themselves, that's when I become suspicious...

    Remember National Endowment of Democracy?

    The sugar daddy of overt operations has been the National Endowment for Democracy, a quasi-private group headed by Carl Gershman that is funded by the U.S. Congress. Through the late 1980s, it did openly what had once been unspeakably covert -- dispensing money to anti-communist forces behind the Iron Curtain.

    • THE NEW WORLD OF SPYLESS COUPS, The Washington Post

    et this

    Already in the 1970s, Friedrich Hayek criticized the “economic and social rights” proclaimed in the United Nations Universal Declaration of the Human Rights in 1948 as the result of the devastating influence exercised by the “Russian Marxist revolution.” Between Liberty and Slavery, Domenico Losurdo

    If you immediately remember how, in the French Revolution, the pro-monarch British would lambast republican France to hell, then imagine that with any foreign policy enemy, but 100x worse, with often economic sanctions and diplomatic slander being placed upon them...

    Hence, we might critically support national liberation or just anti-western elements, to just whack down the worse, western neoliberal order

    I, for example, consider myself a liberal, but I'm most certainly not a capitalist. I'm stuck in a capitalist society in which I have to play by the rules if I want to feed my family, but that's as far as my support for the system goes. I'm pretty sure a lot of Americans feel this way.

    If you're support Capital's economic policies and its resulting formation and influence of modern culture, governance, and foreign policy issues in your governments, yes, you are a liberal.

    That indicates your support of the growth and dominance of:

    1. The 'middle' class

    (Professional Managers who often manage et protect Capital, usually in corporations; they rely largely on big salaries et commissions)

    (Petit-bourgeoisie, or small business, who are usually more right-libertarian and aggressive in America and the rest of the rest, but fine in a smaller scale in the third world)

    The 3 main Capitalists/ haute bourgeoisie in our society

    1. landlords and farmowners

    2. industrialists

    3. bankers, financiers, shareholders, et the like

    4. comprador capitalists (local capitalists in the Third World/Global South who sell their country to imperial, usually western interests, to give you commodities from your shoes to iPhones, but hey, investment = prosperity, according to what liberals think, though not necessarily you)

    (Eg. Taiwan, Japan and South Korea are rich comprador nations, but so are the Philippines and Turkey, which are 'poorer'.)

    1. settler-colonialists: people who seek to displace an indigenous people via force by displacement, conflict, if not genocide, in order to replace them with a more 'superior', usually entrepreneurial society (remember America? Argentina? Australia)

    Note: And often, foreign policy is used to defend those compradors and settlers.

    But also importantly:

    1. western 'culture', 'ideology' et values (since capitalism was fully birthed by the West, especially the U.S et Britain, which has been wielding it as an economic system of dominance. )

    This isn't necessarily a proper definition but certainly a guideline of examples of how to be a liberal....

    You might certainly be a liberal if you might idealistically think small businesses are the actual form of capitalism while also saying the same for getting rich on publicly-traded stocks from large corporations, so by those measures we will consider you a liberal.