• beef_curds [she/her]
    hexbear
    37
    4 months ago

    This was getting praise but it just reminds me of when libs started venerating McCain as a saint bc he voted with them once after a lifetime of being a ghoul.

    I don't get how anyone pro trans can live through the past decade and still fly a libertarian flag. Did people not witness what direction 95% of libertarians broke? Maybe I'm just too doomed out to have a fun time with people meming on this.

    • nat_turner_overdrive [he/him]
      hexbear
      18
      4 months ago

      I think a some libertarians are well meaning at their core but lack the perspective or curiosity to get very far out of their own personal experience/bubble, so being white straight guys they've just never really thought very hard about, well, anything that doesn't directly affect them. I've had some success walking them outside their bubble and exploring the consequences of the stuff they believe and it's pretty often effective at making them actually start thinking.

      • beef_curds [she/her]
        hexbear
        17
        edit-2
        4 months ago

        Sure, maybe a decade ago, and maybe today for some people identifying as it hyper casually.

        But I don't get how you get to the point where you're buying flags and participating in libertarian party politics, and not understand that libertarian flags are flying beside fash flags at every far right hate rally.

        I can only read this graphic (that a party is publishing) as a completely cynical attempt to confuse people about what the party stands for. They know who makes up their party faithful. They know this means "in theory maybe trans people are ok, in practice we're working with people who want to exterminate them."

        • nat_turner_overdrive [he/him]
          hexbear
          13
          4 months ago

          They're still liberals, cause and effect aren't tied directly together for them in their worldviews. I have no doubt that plenty of them are just as you describe them, but don't underestimate the willingness of the liberal worldview to pointedly ignore things that a materialist viewpoint would find extremely obvious.

      • culpritus [any]
        hexbear
        16
        4 months ago

        this

        I was a socially liberal libertarian around the time of the 2003 Iraq invasion. It took a lot of reading many left leaning perspectives to get me to understand the failings of liberalism and libertarianism. As a USAmerican, I was so full of propaganda education, it took way longer than it should, but I also didn't really have any actual leftists to talk to about this stuff in my life. Since my marxist epiphany, I've been able to breadcrumb some folks in one conversation through years of my own development just by talking about historical materialist analysis and other concepts.

      • 420blazeit69 [he/him]
        hexbear
        6
        4 months ago

        In my experience, you have a significant chunk of libertarians (maybe 20-30%) who:

        1. Are decent people in the "socially liberal" sense
        2. Are horrified by right-wing politics
        3. Correctly see legitimate issues with Democrats (although they'll often have some bad takes about Democrats mixed in)
        4. Are experiencing, or at least acknowledge, some of the material conditions that traditionally drive people left

        Those are people we can bring around.

    • M68040 [they/them]
      hexbear
      5
      4 months ago

      Reading The Fountainhead and thinking "Wow, this sucks" in high school was a watershed moment (and always will be)