On one hand, I do think torture is wrong
But on the other hand, this just feels like more confirmation of Ukraine/US involvement that they're so outraged about it.
On one hand, I do think torture is wrong
But on the other hand, this just feels like more confirmation of Ukraine/US involvement that they're so outraged about it.
torture bad of course, but some guys getting roughed up after getting caught doing mass murder of civilians is at least understandable
imagine if they made a whole international torture industry pipeline, with hundreds of people getting kidnapped on spurious charges and moved around blacksite torture prisons and being tortured with methods designed to generate false confessions
They were repeatedly shoving guys own severed ear into his mouth, trying to make him eat it. That's not "roughing up after catching", that's proper torture.
Way too many "torture is actually OK" comments in here
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The proper response to a state torturing a suspect is not "I'm sure he deserved it"
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There is no excuse for a state torturing anyone, so there is no room for "he deserved it" in this conversation. It should be the easiest thing in the world to look at Russians torturing this guy and say that's wrong. This is the difference between critical support and unconditional support.
You are also assuming he is guilty based on what, news reports in the immediate aftermath? That we all know are just press releases straight from the cops? You can't look at stuff like mundane drug arrests in the U.S. and be hypersuspicious of every allegation then uncritically accept the first story the cops put out on a high-profile terrorist attack.
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You're the one going to bat for torture here. Torture that is inexcusable no matter what these guys did.
But I'm sure you've done a deep, sober dive into the evidence and are not simply repeating (other) things the cops told you. I'm sure we have the full story about what exactly happened and who exactly was involved 48 hours after the fact.
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What does it fucking matter if he's guilty, it's not the police's job or the state's job to enact revenge.
I mean, uh, it kind of is?
Either put him on trial or put a bullet in his head. Torture achieves nothing, it's just petty revenge.
It's not, but too many of the responses in this thread verge dangerously close to "all states bad," "all cops are bastards," "be a fucking decent human being," and other nuance-less liberal platitudes. If I wanted that sort of thing I could go over to r/tankiejerk or some other anarchist-infested hellhole.
I want to live in the reality where libs are saying ACAB
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Torture isn't a very nuanced subject. There just aren't any excuses for it, especially not here, where it's purely retributive and the act in question is clearly torture.
I'm not sure what any of the things you wrote have to do with my comment, maybe you replied to a wrong comment.
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I don't know what he expected.
ohh yeah, I agree, that's beyond "roughing up"
The US already create the torture institutions with the Indian Residential fake School death camps from 1850s to 1998 that later became the Nazi death camps. The Pax Americana justice system also use coerced confession as absolute prove of guilt under the excuse that a person will never confess to crimes that they did not commit regardless of the circumstances or level coercion. It is suspicious that Pax Americana condemn the very coercion that they readily practiced daily.
You're right about plenty, but not here. If you cut a guy's ear off and he confesses afterwards you're actually going to have a hell of a time getting that confession admitted in court. You very likely won't even get in a confession if a person was not read their Miranda rights.