• Pili [any, any]
    hexbear
    140
    1 month ago

    10 years of Uyghur "genocide": no image

    7 months after October 7:

    Next lib cope: "Israel is a free and democratic country so people are allowed to take photos of the concentration camps!"

    • Cummunism [they/them, he/him]
      hexbear
      78
      1 month ago

      10 years of Uyghur "genocide": no image

      the photo of the Palestinians sitting is so hilariously close to the same as that fake photo of Uyghurs.

      • KobaCumTribute [she/her]
        hexbear
        28
        edit-2
        1 month ago

        that fake photo of Uyghurs.

        If you're talking about the one I think, the picture of inmates sitting in a yard wasn't fake, it was an official PR photograph for a seminar about (IIRC) educational programs available to inmates, showing inmates watching the seminar alongside their (out of frame) families. It just got spammed everywhere without context because "China + prison yard" is all it takes for chuds' imaginations to run wild.

    • rio [none/use name]
      hexbear
      72
      1 month ago

      But there was a photo of the Uyghur genocide.

      Sure, it was in Brazil and a photo of a Brazilian jail, but we were definitely told it was Uyghur genocide.

      And you’re also forgetting those satellite images of warehouses in Xinjiang. How do you explain that if not genocide?

    • @Shyfer@ttrpg.network
      hexbear
      6
      edit-2
      1 month ago

      Weren't there satellite pictures of their facilities and prisons, and videos of their schools where they were trying to eliminate their old culture? There were images all over the Jon Oliver episode on the Uyghur genocide, including video. You think they were all fake?

      • Doubledee [comrade/them]
        hexbear
        37
        1 month ago

        I believe China acknowledges the facilities exist, they would dispute that they are torture camps though. I'm of two minds, on the one hand I can easily imagine a government committing human rights abuses in response to a security threat. I think it's good to be skeptical of the state narrative that they're nice vocational training facilities. There's a decent chance things are happening that I would find unacceptable, I think that's fair.

        On the other hand I see how our government and media are treating the Palestine conflict. I remember WMD, and the babies that were supposedly unplugged from the incubators in Kuwait. I've read about the Gulf of Tonkin. I know what we did to Mossadegh, and how we spun that coup against democracy as liberation.

        I'm deeply skeptical of US and 'western' narratives of people that threaten their order. And yes I do believe a lot of things can be faked, especially things happening in a language almost no Americans speak or read and have to trust the interpretation of events being given to them by actors with a stake in the outcome.

        • KobaCumTribute [she/her]
          hexbear
          21
          1 month ago

          On the other hand I see how our government and media are treating the Palestine conflict.

          Related to that, another good thing to look at is how officials and the media talk about these sorts of things: there's all the vocal dehumanization and aggression towards Palestinians in occupied Palestine, towards refugees in the US, etc with the aim of whipping up hatred and inspiring eager genocidaires, whereas in China incitement of ethnic hatred is criminalized, official sources praise Uygur culture, Uygur artists are elevated in the media, etc.

          Genocide requires incitement and hatred to sustain it, it doesn't just quietly get enacted without a strong militant base of support to actually carry it out, and it doesn't happen without the whole process leaking like a sieve either - not just from dissenters trying to spread awareness but from the genocidaires themselves celebrating it. If there were a genocide in Xinjiang not only would there be actual, material signs of that like refugees fleeing across the nearby border (instead of there being a constant, normal back and forth there as residents travel for one reason or another and return), there'd be dipshit footsoldiers posting selfies celebrating their latest atrocity and encouraging others to join in, like we see with the IOF publicizing their own crimes in Gaza.

        • LaughingLion [any, any]
          hexbear
          19
          1 month ago

          more likely than not they are deradicalization centers - ie reeducation facilities

          the us government has spent billions to radicalize the uighurs over the past 30 years. cant remember the name of the program. they wanted to create their own version of alqaida in western china but china was like, no, we aint having that

          • Doubledee [comrade/them]
            hexbear
            14
            1 month ago

            Right, I acknowledge that, although China unfortunately also had a hand in the radicalization effort: Blowback season 4 goes into it a bit, they wanted to poke the USSR so they actually helped fund the sources in Afghanistan that later backfired into Xinjiang. But like I said, they're dealing with a real security problem.

            I would still say that an ethnically delineated camp is probably too broad of a response, but I'm also not one of the people that got stabbed. Maybe that's bourgeois decadence for me to think. Deradicalization appears to be very difficult to do while abiding by the convention on human rights, a more humane and successful attempt at what China is doing doesn't come to mind.

            At any rate I am skeptical of the nightmarish cartoon version you normally hear, I wish there were more robust third party organizations that could be trusted to investigate something like this without being weaponized by the US or some wacky fundamentalist. It's just that there's a lot of room between "a genocide of Uygurs" and "everything is totally fine."

        • SpookyGenderCommunist [they/them]
          hexbear
          4
          1 month ago

          I can easily imagine a government committing human rights abuses in response to a security threat.

          From what I remember, this was basically the conclusion of a UN report on the subject.

          That China was engaging in this broadly successful de-radicalization campaign, that there was evidence of human rights abuses in certain areas of that program, but that they didn't amount to genocide. In fact, I don't think the report ever mentioned the word genocide.

      • bbnh69420 [she/her, they/them]
        hexbear
        31
        1 month ago

        Fake and/or misrepresented, yes. Nobody denies a counter-insurgency in the region. They do deny a genocide, because the claims are false

      • Outdoor_Catgirl [she/her, they/them]
        hexbear
        25
        1 month ago

        Dumb ass amerikkkracker thinks prison is genocide. I get it, you're amerikkkan and want to use prisons to genocide and oppress black people but not every country is amerikkka

      • DyingOfDeBordom [none/use name]
        hexbear
        23
        1 month ago

        Bro if China wanted to genocide the uighers (why would they btw) why would they explicitly exempt them from their previous one child policy? Why has the uigher population steadily increased like consistently?

        Are they just doing a genocide very badly? Seems stupid to believe in imo