I was involved in the past but my take on "listen to sex workers" is the same as my take on "listen to workers". You don't listen to the reactionary workers do you? You understand that they're misinformed and unaware of their own exploitation. The reaction you will get from most sex workers when you try to explain certain concepts to them is extremely defensive, because they currently rely on their sex work for an income. You get a completely different conversation with sex workers that have exited the industry compared to those currently in it.
I have made pro-sexwork users here very upset about this in the past because I hold the opinion that if work is coerced under capitalism then the "sex" in sex-work is also coerced and therefore SA. I continue to hold this opinion.
What do I think should be done about it? Nothing. You can't just end sex work. It must be phased out through radical changes in society until it is no longer a thing anyone needs to do and no longer has any fiscal factors involved driving its existence, this will then leave behind the people that are purely doing it out of hobbiest and enjoyment intentions. Very very very long-term outcome of socialism. In the meantime everything should be done under capitalism to protect these workers without compromising on the fact that the longterm goal should be to minimise the existence of this industry.
I was involved in the past but my take on "listen to sex workers" is the same as my take on "listen to workers". You don't listen to the reactionary workers do you?
You also don't only ask the richest of workers how it's going. If you ask a well paid software engineer at Amazon how it's like to work at Amazon, they'll say it's great. If you ask a factory worker from the global south/third world that makes goods for Amazon, or a warehouse worker making minimum wage, they'll have a different and much more negative opinion. Same principle applies here. If you ask a top 0.01% onlyfans creator, they'll say it's great. If you ask a women being prostituted in the third world/global south, they'll likely have a different and much more negative opinion.
The term "sex work" is also quite broad and you get people who do soft image stuff or streaming mixed in with street sex work mixed in with high end escort stuff mixed in with professional porn. All of which are going to be very different experiences.
Yes. Years ago I was also involved in this. Like dark web bitcoin come-to-the-apartment-to-fuck sort of things. This is such a drastically different experience than what most people, even those who ID as “sex workers”, think of, which is doing camming or onlyfans et al. Having this conversation with any of them is exhausting and I’ve given up. It may go without saying but I didn’t get into it willingly and I wouldn’t go back into it willingly and I don’t think anyone would if they were seriously given a choice that wasn’t “do this or starve”. I wish I had the eloquence and apparent patience you display here but I am so tired of arguing it. They want to “hear from sex workers” until one of them says “yeah this sucks and is bad”.
Hi, if you'd like to ask questions I'm here.
You seem curious in other comments so I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Kinda hard to give you the full picture since I've never had a pimp, but I think the cognitive dissonance only really comes up when I'm talking to someone who wants to enter the industry and isn't understanding the ramifications. Otherwise it's kinda a "supporting each other's prison successes" vibe since we feel trapped in the world.
![[CW: Naked demon on a sign for a vegan strip club]](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/98f29667-0b06-4c43-b64a-996ea338e487.jpeg){kind=link}
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I was involved in the past but my take on "listen to sex workers" is the same as my take on "listen to workers". You don't listen to the reactionary workers do you? You understand that they're misinformed and unaware of their own exploitation. The reaction you will get from most sex workers when you try to explain certain concepts to them is extremely defensive, because they currently rely on their sex work for an income. You get a completely different conversation with sex workers that have exited the industry compared to those currently in it.
I have made pro-sexwork users here very upset about this in the past because I hold the opinion that if work is coerced under capitalism then the "sex" in sex-work is also coerced and therefore SA. I continue to hold this opinion.
What do I think should be done about it? Nothing. You can't just end sex work. It must be phased out through radical changes in society until it is no longer a thing anyone needs to do and no longer has any fiscal factors involved driving its existence, this will then leave behind the people that are purely doing it out of hobbiest and enjoyment intentions. Very very very long-term outcome of socialism. In the meantime everything should be done under capitalism to protect these workers without compromising on the fact that the longterm goal should be to minimise the existence of this industry.
You also don't only ask the richest of workers how it's going. If you ask a well paid software engineer at Amazon how it's like to work at Amazon, they'll say it's great. If you ask a factory worker from the global south/third world that makes goods for Amazon, or a warehouse worker making minimum wage, they'll have a different and much more negative opinion. Same principle applies here. If you ask a top 0.01% onlyfans creator, they'll say it's great. If you ask a women being prostituted in the third world/global south, they'll likely have a different and much more negative opinion.
The term "sex work" is also quite broad and you get people who do soft image stuff or streaming mixed in with street sex work mixed in with high end escort stuff mixed in with professional porn. All of which are going to be very different experiences.
Yes. Years ago I was also involved in this. Like dark web bitcoin come-to-the-apartment-to-fuck sort of things. This is such a drastically different experience than what most people, even those who ID as “sex workers”, think of, which is doing camming or onlyfans et al. Having this conversation with any of them is exhausting and I’ve given up. It may go without saying but I didn’t get into it willingly and I wouldn’t go back into it willingly and I don’t think anyone would if they were seriously given a choice that wasn’t “do this or starve”. I wish I had the eloquence and apparent patience you display here but I am so tired of arguing it. They want to “hear from sex workers” until one of them says “yeah this sucks and is bad”.
Hi, if you'd like to ask questions I'm here.
You seem curious in other comments so I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Kinda hard to give you the full picture since I've never had a pimp, but I think the cognitive dissonance only really comes up when I'm talking to someone who wants to enter the industry and isn't understanding the ramifications. Otherwise it's kinda a "supporting each other's prison successes" vibe since we feel trapped in the world.
i don't think anyone besides pimps (and people who have been abused into dependence) are pro-pimp
Oh absolutely
Pimps are despicable