I'll start off by pointing out that last 3 primaries have been some kind of funny business.

  • 2016: Bernie snuffed by Hillary with shady tactics that lead to the D losing to Trump (lol).
  • 2020: Everyone drops like flies to support Biden (sus, but allegedly because Trump and Covid were bad).
  • 2024: Biden waits until the last second to announce dropping, there seems to be momentum to skip the Primary and go with Kamala Harris.

Assuming everything I've stated is accurate-enough, do you think the average person is likely to feel like this isn't Democracy? Or will this be business as usual for the US? Will the absence of censorship on tiktok be likely change anything?

For this reason, until there is a primary that Kamala wins, I want every mention of Kamala Harris to be prefixed with a formal title like Kamala Harris, the appointed, the unelected, in a similar vein as Mother of Dragons, Daenerys Targaryen.

  • emizeko [they/them]
    ·
    4 months ago

    if you corner a liberal and confront them with enough facts and history they can usually be browbeaten into conceding that it's not a democracy, and then after five minutes of cable news they are back to pretending that their vote means as much as the donations Jeff Bezos makes

    • MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml
      ·
      4 months ago

      This is why media criticism is how I try to start deprograming libs. Citations Needed is probably the easiest option for them to get into.

      Have to interrupt that backsliding or you'll never get anywhere.

      • Frank [he/him, he/him]
        ·
        4 months ago

        Nima and Adam do have the advantage of being able to go in to soothing NPR stupor voice mode between exasperation and knowledge dumps. It's one of the liberal's key metacognitive weaknesses.

      • Ericthescruffy [he/him]
        ·
        4 months ago

        This right here. Bullying and browbeating has its place in larger discourse but in my opinion, and based on my own experience, you have more success changing people's minds when you learn them down the path to feel like they figured it out for themselves.

        • MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml
          ·
          4 months ago

          Bullying, like posting, is for the audience. If done right (and that's a real easy line to cross) it can sway people listening in, but it's effects on the subject are all over the place.

          If you're actually trying to change the mind of the person you're talking to, they first have to respect you, and even then anything beyond friendly cajoling is more likely to backfire than succeed.

          The problem is bullying is fun and feels good, and the biggest proponents of it will angrily dismiss any criticism of it as a tactic.

          • the_post_of_tom_joad [any, any]
            ·
            4 months ago

            I dunno i think bullying has its place! If someone's just parroting and they get hot with a response outside of their expectation it could knock some shit loose.

            You'll never see bullying work in the moment but if someone's primed to open their mind anyway i don't think bullying is bad, just overused (cuz yes it does feel good)

            Of course we might be operating on different definitions of bullying. Im thinking "derisive/dismissive comments mocking a commenter’s point, with a direct correlation to the amount of hubris with which point was delivered"

            Yeah?

            • MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml
              ·
              4 months ago

              Yeah, that all seems spot on, especially with that fairly tame version of bullying. It can cause people to reflect later on, I just think it's easy to go so hard people just say "fuck that person" and write it off entirely. May even cause them to dig in further.

    • Diuretic_Materialism [he/him]
      ·
      4 months ago

      This is why I'm skeptical of most of the "I managed to talk my Lib/Chud friend/family member into being a socialist" narratives you see online. Seems like you just bullied them into conceding you were right, and I suspect 9/10 they'll just wait a week till the memory or you owning them fades and then watch some Fox/MSNBC and be right back on their bullshit.

      • starkillerfish [she/her]
        ·
        4 months ago

        I agree. Both Dems and Reps use pseudo-socialist talking points (pro worker, anti rich) so a lot of it is already ingrained in the US psyche. It is not dissonant for them to agree with socialist arguments one day and then with republican newscasters the next day. I’ve had staunch libertarians tell me that they actually want communism more than communists.

        • TreadOnMe [none/use name]
          ·
          4 months ago

          Ah yes, the classic libertarian fall back of 'Despite having no understanding of my own ideology, I actually understand what your ideology wants better than you do. What, no I haven't actually read anything about it, I just remember history class really well.'

      • Blockocheese [any]
        ·
        4 months ago

        God i feel that, im like fucking sisyphus trying to get libs to remember or read anything

    • Frank [he/him, he/him]
      ·
      4 months ago

      Won't even take five minutes. In one breath they'll admit that voting does nothing, then they'll go right back to fearsturbating about what might happen if Mussolini von Hitler (D NY) doesn't win.