I appreciate the clarification for what the "YA idealist" straw effigy was intended for. As a big Disco Elysium enjoyer myself, I enjoy stories that actually can include naive idealistic bullshit plot directions as potential story paths, especially when they're fully explored, folly and all, mind.
I'd rather not have this get too heated much longer, especially because subjective like and dislike of entertainment being on trial can go places like "you didn't get it/didn't understand it if you didn't like it" and I'm not cool with that. I already admitted I quit playing the Witcherino some years ago and haven't looked back on it since because I was that unhappy the first time around, whether or not you think I incorrectly subjectively experienced what I saw before I gave up on it.
The Cyberpunkerinos I remember a little more clearly, and that includes, yes, more cop apologia than you apparently remember, including missions where you hunt down "cyberpsychosis" victims on their behalf, if I recall correctly.
V is an absolute dumbass with no political education and an incredibly incoherent worldview who says cringe shit constantly.
I don't see it as particularly deep or good writing when the pretense is that "V" is supposed to be the player's ego-insert, fully customizable up to and including genitals, yet is required to be that absolute dumbass with no political education and an incredibly incoherent worldview who says cringe shit constantly that you just mentioned.
As a big Disco Elysium enjoyer myself, I enjoy stories that actually can include naive idealistic bullshit plot directions as potential story paths, especially when they're fully explored, folly and all, mind.
Yeah, their writing isn't on par with Disco Elysium by any means, but on a scale from 1-10 where 1 is Starfield and its completely empty and incoherent slop and 10 is Disco Elysium, Cyberpunk and the Witcher 3 are maybe 6s, 7s at their best. Cyberpunk at its absolute worst rock bottom writing (Sinnerman) still wasn't as bad as the best Starfield managed, for example.
especially because subjective like and dislike of entertainment being on trial can go places like "you didn't get it/didn't understand it if you didn't like it" and I'm not cool with that. I already admitted I quit playing the Witcherino some years ago
Yeah, the Witcher in particular is very rough around the edges and I'd never go back to it myself, I just want to emphasize that its writing does overall handle things well, certainly better than I'd expect from a AAA studio, and that it's generally just grounded and has things happen for material reasons instead of the vibes-based narrative most AAA games run on. A lot of gamers praise it for entirely the wrong reasons or struggle to articulate why what it's doing is better and they're both insufferable and have ulterior reasons to hide how the overall moral stance it takes is diametrically opposed to their own worldview.
including missions where you hunt down "cyberpsychosis" victims on their behalf, if I recall correctly.
There's a side quest chain involving stopping what are basically active shooter situations, given to you by a fixer who used to be a journalist who wants you to keep them alive so she can enroll them in a treatment program. I don't know why everyone always thinks she's a cop.
I've talked a lot about the whole concept of "cyberpyschosis" on here before and how Pondsmith's entire idea of it is at once better than it seems but still real galaxy brained shit - which fits with how he's probably the most endearing galaxy brained lib even if he's had some wildly awful takes over the years - and I think CDPR handled it better than he does in that almost every case is someone on the margins with poor access to healthcare dealing with the ongoing nightmare of malfunctioning augments and suffering constant violence who eventually just lashes out at a real or perceived threat and then just keeps fighting because they expect to be killed for stepping out of line anyways, to the point that one can reasonably read it as "cyberpsychosis" not even being a diegetically real thing at all and instead just a pejorative term to other defensive violence from marginalized people. In one case the "cyberpsycho" is literally just a vigilante who's hunting members of an organized crime syndicate for mundane revenge reasons, and he only attacks the player because you try to stop him.
I don't see it as particularly deep or good writing when the pretense is that "V" is supposed to be the player's ego-insert, fully customizable up to and including genitals, yet is required to be that absolute dumbass with no political education and an incredibly incoherent worldview who says cringe shit constantly that you just mentioned.
Yeah it's a problem and probably stems from their writers mostly having experience writing a predefined character, so V was their first go at making more of a blank slate for the player. V being kind of shit no matter what is narratively fitting though: they're this lumpen petty bourgeoisie killer for hire with dreams of grandeur, raised after the apocalypse in a world dominated by a hyper capitalist death cult with pervasive propaganda everywhere. Nomad V is the best and most coherent because they come from outside that system, but still not really fleshed out enough or politically educated at all.
I was trying to come up with another "1" other than Starfield that isn't just, like, Custer's Revenge on the Atari, and I came up with nothing. Damn, Starfield may really be the 1. . It may be neither here nor there, but I'd put Cruelty Squad up there fairly high too, especially considering what one might expect from a shooter.
Starfield really is just the blandest, vibes-as-worldbuilding game I can think of. Like there's worse games and on a mechanical level it's better than I expected from Bethesda, but I can't think of a better "diametric opposite of everything Disco Elysium does well" game.
It may be neither here nor there, but I'd put Cruelty Squad up there fairly high too, especially considering what one might expect from a shooter.
I haven't played it and don't personally like that sort of gameplay, but I've heard that its writing is good.
It was a bold move to make the entire story's purpose to pull the player into LE EPIC MULTIVERSE while providing multiplied procedural emptiness over the first bland boring universe that they had already come from.
I haven't played it and don't personally like that sort of gameplay, but I've heard that its writing is good.
The writing is almost Disco Elysium tier, with similar strange, grotesque, but highly thoughtful introspective ideas hidden among the gunplay. I mean, it isn't enough justification to play it if you don't like that kind of game, but watching a playthrough or a curated visit may be fun for you.
I appreciate the clarification for what the "YA idealist" straw effigy was intended for. As a big Disco Elysium enjoyer myself, I enjoy stories that actually can include naive idealistic bullshit plot directions as potential story paths, especially when they're fully explored, folly and all, mind.
I'd rather not have this get too heated much longer, especially because subjective like and dislike of entertainment being on trial can go places like "you didn't get it/didn't understand it if you didn't like it" and I'm not cool with that. I already admitted I quit playing the Witcherino some years ago and haven't looked back on it since because I was that unhappy the first time around, whether or not you think I incorrectly subjectively experienced what I saw before I gave up on it.
The Cyberpunkerinos I remember a little more clearly, and that includes, yes, more cop apologia than you apparently remember, including missions where you hunt down "cyberpsychosis" victims on their behalf, if I recall correctly.
I don't see it as particularly deep or good writing when the pretense is that "V" is supposed to be the player's ego-insert, fully customizable up to and including genitals, yet is required to be that absolute dumbass with no political education and an incredibly incoherent worldview who says cringe shit constantly that you just mentioned.
Yeah, their writing isn't on par with Disco Elysium by any means, but on a scale from 1-10 where 1 is Starfield and its completely empty and incoherent slop and 10 is Disco Elysium, Cyberpunk and the Witcher 3 are maybe 6s, 7s at their best. Cyberpunk at its absolute worst rock bottom writing (Sinnerman) still wasn't as bad as the best Starfield managed, for example.
Yeah, the Witcher in particular is very rough around the edges and I'd never go back to it myself, I just want to emphasize that its writing does overall handle things well, certainly better than I'd expect from a AAA studio, and that it's generally just grounded and has things happen for material reasons instead of the vibes-based narrative most AAA games run on. A lot of gamers praise it for entirely the wrong reasons or struggle to articulate why what it's doing is better and they're both insufferable and have ulterior reasons to hide how the overall moral stance it takes is diametrically opposed to their own worldview.
There's a side quest chain involving stopping what are basically active shooter situations, given to you by a fixer who used to be a journalist who wants you to keep them alive so she can enroll them in a treatment program. I don't know why everyone always thinks she's a cop.
I've talked a lot about the whole concept of "cyberpyschosis" on here before and how Pondsmith's entire idea of it is at once better than it seems but still real galaxy brained shit - which fits with how he's probably the most endearing galaxy brained lib even if he's had some wildly awful takes over the years - and I think CDPR handled it better than he does in that almost every case is someone on the margins with poor access to healthcare dealing with the ongoing nightmare of malfunctioning augments and suffering constant violence who eventually just lashes out at a real or perceived threat and then just keeps fighting because they expect to be killed for stepping out of line anyways, to the point that one can reasonably read it as "cyberpsychosis" not even being a diegetically real thing at all and instead just a pejorative term to other defensive violence from marginalized people. In one case the "cyberpsycho" is literally just a vigilante who's hunting members of an organized crime syndicate for mundane revenge reasons, and he only attacks the player because you try to stop him.
Yeah it's a problem and probably stems from their writers mostly having experience writing a predefined character, so V was their first go at making more of a blank slate for the player. V being kind of shit no matter what is narratively fitting though: they're this lumpen petty bourgeoisie killer for hire with dreams of grandeur, raised after the apocalypse in a world dominated by a hyper capitalist death cult with pervasive propaganda everywhere. Nomad V is the best and most coherent because they come from outside that system, but still not really fleshed out enough or politically educated at all.
I was trying to come up with another "1" other than Starfield that isn't just, like, Custer's Revenge on the Atari, and I came up with nothing. Damn, Starfield may really be the 1.
. It may be neither here nor there, but I'd put Cruelty Squad up there fairly high too, especially considering what one might expect from a shooter.
Starfield really is just the blandest, vibes-as-worldbuilding game I can think of. Like there's worse games and on a mechanical level it's better than I expected from Bethesda, but I can't think of a better "diametric opposite of everything Disco Elysium does well" game.
I haven't played it and don't personally like that sort of gameplay, but I've heard that its writing is good.
It was a bold move to make the entire story's purpose to pull the player into LE EPIC MULTIVERSE while providing multiplied procedural emptiness over the first bland boring universe that they had already come from.
The writing is almost Disco Elysium tier, with similar strange, grotesque, but highly thoughtful introspective ideas hidden among the gunplay. I mean, it isn't enough justification to play it if you don't like that kind of game, but watching a playthrough or a curated visit may be fun for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ4NLbIxzQ4
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy: