I genuinely feel like America bombing the hell out of so many countries in Africa just naturally would endear those countries to anyone except America and their Western vassals, but apparently a lot of twitter users can't seem to comprehend that.

Is whatever debt these countries incur worse than the IMF? Are the consequences anywhere near as bad?

I usually like to start from the position that the leaders of these countries know what they're doing (something Western twitter users don't), so I personally doubt it's anywhere near as bad as people claim, and no matter how bad it is, I don't believe for a moment it could be as bad as the IMF.

  • nat_turner_overdrive [he/him]
    ·
    13 days ago

    Let's also not forget that China has forgiven interest free loans to African nations: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-23/china-to-waive-some-africa-loans-offer-10-billion-in-imf-funds

    • Evilsandwichman [none/use name]
      ·
      13 days ago

      Ah, thanks for the info; I do recall reading about this before but it felt as though the news undersold China's actions.

      • nat_turner_overdrive [he/him]
        ·
        13 days ago

        I often think about a conversation I had with a liberal who was basically asking me to convince them that China isn't an evil gommulist world security threat. I was contrasting China's foreign policy and economic actions against the west's and how the IMF just straight up does debt peonage and cripples nations, while China offers deals and doesn't use threats and military pressure to force acquiescence. After explaining that China's tactic towards Africa and the rest of the developing nations is to try to help them develop themselves into successful, rich economies so that they can engage in mutually beneficial trade with China, and China even forgives some loans to those nations as a result of that longterm interest, he gave me a knowing look and smugly said "Ohhhh, I see what they're doing, heh heh."

        He still thinks China's evil, he just now thinks they're evil because they're using dastardly good, helpful tactics instead of starting wars, coups, and genocides. Fucking liberals.

        • Evilsandwichman [none/use name]
          ·
          13 days ago

          I'm personally trying a different tactic with liberals and instead asking them if they were an African country, given these two possibilities (China or America + other imperialist/former colonialist/neocolonialist countries), who would they honestly consider the better business partner; I'd also remind them Libya (the most prosperous African country) was once really close to America and look where they are now. I'd also ask them if they consider African people mentally inferior because all they have to do is hear what African leaders who denounce the US and France (and Germany in at least one case) have to say and whether they think African people aren't intelligent enough to choose for themselves. I tell them Africa's former colonial masters certainly felt African people weren't capable of governing themselves, perhaps they think Africa should be run by Western countries again (or I will the next time this comes up).

          Of course the people on the other side of this question are liberals; I'm not getting my hopes up. As BlackAdder once said: "The eyes are open, the mouth moves, but Mr Brain has long since departed, hasn't he, Perce?"