Look at italians. Thye were swartly PoC and in our lifetimes they were upgraded to white because we needed more numbers to opress the other minorities with. Before that it was the Irish
you're disproving your own point here. Irish and Italians entered the US at the same time. Irish racism died out in the early-mid 1900s, Italians faced mild racism as late as the 1990s, and still do if they're dark enough
"Racism is economic bc we needed to water down the definition of white to ally against even darker hordes" isn't the winning argument that you think it is
Yeah, the Irish were made cops so that put them up the class structure. Turning men at arms into full citizens was a classic move. There is no fundamental difference between them, they just found themselves in diffrent places in the super structure and were treated diffrent as material circumstances would dictate.
Cause they were already partially converted by British colonization. The Irish were papists just like the Italians.
You are proposing the Irish were whiter so they got treated better? That ignores the times in which they were not treated better. I don't think you can construct a clear line through this data.
Why have I seen a job application from the 1980s where the applicant could mark down "Caucasoid: Northern European" "Caucasoid: Asian Indian/Middle Eastern" and "Caucasoid: Italian/Southern European"
I have Italian friends whose parents couldn't find houses in WASP neighborhoods, this is a weird hill to die on. Most people can tell the difference between a group of Sicilians and a group of Irish. It's not hard.
Yeah, but no one cares any more to my knowledge. So you have a first order experience of them going from non-white to white. Without any phenotypic changes. You are seeing the fake system in fake action. If it was about any genetic factor that wouldn't have happened.
you're disproving your own point here. Irish and Italians entered the US at the same time. Irish racism died out in the early-mid 1900s, Italians faced mild racism as late as the 1990s, and still do if they're dark enough
"Racism is economic bc we needed to water down the definition of white to ally against even darker hordes" isn't the winning argument that you think it is
Yeah, the Irish were made cops so that put them up the class structure. Turning men at arms into full citizens was a classic move. There is no fundamental difference between them, they just found themselves in diffrent places in the super structure and were treated diffrent as material circumstances would dictate.
and WHY were the Irish made cops as opposed to the Italians?
Cause they were already partially converted by British colonization. The Irish were papists just like the Italians.
You are proposing the Irish were whiter so they got treated better? That ignores the times in which they were not treated better. I don't think you can construct a clear line through this data.
Why have I seen a job application from the 1980s where the applicant could mark down "Caucasoid: Northern European" "Caucasoid: Asian Indian/Middle Eastern" and "Caucasoid: Italian/Southern European"
I don't think the hirer cared much about papism
I can't begin to guess. Is a sample size of one idiot a useful data set for considering American society? Usually not.
I have Italian friends whose parents couldn't find houses in WASP neighborhoods, this is a weird hill to die on. Most people can tell the difference between a group of Sicilians and a group of Irish. It's not hard.
Yeah, but no one cares any more to my knowledge. So you have a first order experience of them going from non-white to white. Without any phenotypic changes. You are seeing the fake system in fake action. If it was about any genetic factor that wouldn't have happened.
if racism against Black/Brown people exists, it also exists (to a lesser extent) against people who pass as Black/Brown
If you're applying to buy a house, they can see your name is Salvatori Giupetti
If you're walking down the street, they just see a Latino
Yeah despite being catholic the irish are still northern european, which is what most us anglos mean when they say "white"
ngl it's insane how people ITT still can't see it