I believe in an open internet, FOSS, privacy by default, etc. I migrated away from Google by self-hosting Nextcloud. I prefer messaging apps like Molly, SimpleX, Threema, Matrix, etc. over standard SMS. I love the Fediverse (Lemmy, Mastodon, etc.).
But everyone I live with and everyone I know simply refuses to take part. I can't interact with them socially because they're all on Facebook. I can't communicate with them because they all use group texts for SMS/RCS. I feel like I'm living in a different part of the world and am completely disconnected from everything that's going on around me (with the people I want to interact).
My question is: does anyone else experience this, and how do you reconcile it? I want to share photos and clever posts with my family but they aren't on the Fediverse. I want to communicate securely with them but they only want to SMS. I want to share documents but they only use Google Docs.
There are people I've met on the Fediverse and through some secure messaging apps with whom I've struck up a rapport, but these are still (predominately) strangers, and I'd really like to involve the people I care about in these exciting new times. They just wont participate.
I feel like I've invited everyone in my family to go on a great, grand vacation away and I'm the only one who's packed.
I feel like I've invited everyone in my family to go on a great, grand vacation away and I'm the only one who's packed.
From their perspective, you're the fringe idealist who wants to move to a strange, remote place because of nebulous political ideology they neither understand nor wish to understand. And you are proposing that they uproot all of their preexisting social connections, support infrastructure, comfort, and familiarity to come live with you out in the middle of your scary, unfamiliar dystopia. Or, at least, force them to book a redeye flight and stay at a suspect hotel every time they want to visit you.
And honestly, you really are the fringe idealist here. Look at where you are posting this. Look at how few of us there are. Look at how many hoops you needed to jump through to set up what you have now. I certainly don't think you're wrong to champion privacy-focused ideals, but it absolutely is, strictly speaking in a populist context, extremely weird. It is weird to want to understand computerized tech, to know what it actually does, and to make bold, against-the-grain choices based on that knowledge. This is the unfortunate reality, and you have to make your peace with it.
I really do think your option is binary here. Join 'em, or cut 'em. Once you've shot your shot to convince someone to be more consciencious of their privacy and to take action to better secure it, and they frustratingly decline, that's it. They are not coming with you. Further pressing the issue will just drive a wedge between the two of you. At that point, the choice is yours. What's stronger, your willingness to stay conected, or your principles? Are you so rigidly disciplined that you're willling to cut ties (at least, through these channels) just to keep it? If so, I guess that's just a reflection of how much your principles really mean to you. If not, well, it's SMS/RCS and Google Docs for you.
Google and other companies make it extremely convenient and easy, so you don't need to be technically inclined to use their services and everyone already uses them. Asking someone to join the Fediverse requires them to understand what it is, and deal with the learning curve; if they aren't technically inclined, they are almost certain to refuse, and even many technically capable ones don't care enough.
Signal is a much better compromise; private enough that it isn't creepy to use, and easy enough that anyone who uses WhatsApp can pick up without difficulty or friction. Even then, only a small percentage of the people in my life use it. It is what it is.
You can't force people to care. The vast majority of people never even heard of FOSS, never heard of self-hosting (or even know what hosting is), and don't get me started on the Fediverse... Most people don't care about privacy either; my mother for example is the "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" type.
When you say "they refuse to take part", it puts too much blame on people, you can't expect people to do something that they don't understand or care enough about. It's like if I asked you to come with me to protest against something you've never heard of, but in order to understand what's wrong with it, you need a long lecture and actually pay attention. Corporations spent hundreds of billions on making their services and products really convenient and easy, so they have to screw up really badly to get people to switch.
I don't really blame them for not making a switch; I understand their stance/reasoning. It's just depressing to be the one guy left out, like I don't get to dance with anyone at the party because I don't like the music.
I get it, but at the same time, you shouldn't let yourself be bitter about it, or it will soil your interactions with them. Enjoy your IRL interactions with them, and send them an email next time you want to contact them, since email is probably the only ubiquitous federated platform in the world, and it is likely to remain this way for a long time.
I just don't fucking care.
If people prefer WhatsApp because "everyone is using it" then bad luck for them reaching me. Facebook? Am I mentally challenged? If you want to know stuff about my life, ask me. If you want to see pictures of my lovely pet, ask me. Who needs this upvote-circlejerking of fake posers?
If someone really cares, they'd jump on the platform I use or they don't.
Of course I am willing to explain and even install everything for the technically challenged. Also explain, in detail, WHY I'm so strict.
Only thing I am using mainstream with is the stupid pixel-phones. Ironically they're the easiest to un-google. And there is no (good) alternative yet.
If someone really cares, they'd jump on the platform I use or they don't.
What do you do when they feel the same way and don't understand why you think you're worth so much extra time and effort to interact with compared to everyone else?
Do you just cut those people out of your life?
If someone wants me to install a service exclusively to speak to them: fuck em, not worth it.
I use basic text messages to contact people, it's damn near the most universal thing people have when I meet them. I'm not gonna go out of my way to download an app and remember to use it for a specific person when texting exists and everyone else uses it already
This is the argument I typically get from others (though, not as aggressive). I don't blame this stance at all; it makes sense and is reasonable. I try to extol the benefits of the alternatives I propose but there's simply no getting past "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" attitudes.
Sure, it's a reasonable stance. But i would just part digital ways with that person then. Why should, let's say, whatsapp be the default someone has to deviate from? Just because it's #1 (by count, not quality)? Should I feel extorted to install it because "everyone does"? Why is it ok this way round?
It's not really "so much extra time". It's installing another app. And they're not cut out then, i still exist in the real world 😊 But i won't use whatscrap, fuckbook and the likes. Period. And honestly, if people don't even question why those things are horrible, i question myself why I'm interacting with them in the first place.
But it probably helps to be an old antisocial 😁
I just don't worry about it and do my own thing. It's like veganism lol, it's not for everyone.
OP pleaee let me know if you find a solution. So far what i host is for me.. Matrix bridges are a godsend.
You have a product that needs to be sold just as much as google needed to sell gmail. This is where the technical rubber meets the social road. It is a given that not everyone will want to host their services, so to get the network effect people need to use your instance.
With that in mind, first and foremost you should treat your services you host almost like a product: you do need to sell it, it needs to be maintained it, and if other people get onboard you can’t just get bored of it and put it down. Your product is niche and competes with the largest corporate entities out there, but you have the advantage that you can genuinely personally know your customers and your customers can personally and genuinely know you.
I spend considerable thought on this, unless you are talking about household members or other people who trust you borderline absolutely, there is just no way to get a stranger or acquaintance to meaningfully use your hosted services.
For the stuff i host that i can share from my hosted services i make it apparent to the users that the data is subject to my whims. think this helps a little as it puts the otherwise unstated in the open, it would be awkward for a friend to have to ask me how safe their data is, i can acknowledge their data is as safe as their relationship with me is, and honestly that’s the best that can be done without structuring.
Now structuring: if you genuinely want members of your communities to be able to buy in, become consistent and stable with your services operations, a d make a legal entity. Use the entity to provide what you have as a service to have the legal structures in place to protect you and your users. If you think this is bullshit, i don’t recommend because i think the structures will protect anything, i recommend because the structures indicate trustworthiness to the type of people who don’t make themselves concerned with matters they are instructed to not bother with. You would be able to make an appeal to a more personal business relationship.
Now that highlights the effort, as the privacy advocate i functionally have to operate a business to maintain my digital infrastructure; if i want others to join my network i should commit and run a privacy-centric business. There is opportunity here for standard operational models to be documented so that power users can quickly bootstrap and present an adoptable platform to their communities; however, i am not there yet myself.
A lot of us here are on the same boat. We don't know each other but deal with these same issues. We know the truth behind proprietary software and surveillance capitalism and we know that we can only succeed in our efforti if we bring together our loved ones. We need to find the best language and ways to let people know the reality behind the software they use, the dangers of using it, and the marvelous solutions of the free software community. We are a community. Let's hold ourselves together and keep going. The world may be based in libre software in the future. If it doesn't, it will be not a good place to live on. But at least we tried. If not for us, for the ones that'll come in the future.
Yep. It's the price you pay for being an early adopter, I guess. At least my family is on WhatsApp now, which is an okay protocol once you lock down the software implementation.
which is an okay protocol once you lock down the software implementation.
What do you mean by this? Adjusting settings and something more...?
I just have the app in a separate profile right now. Ideally I'd like to run CopperheadOS and have it virtualised or something, but I chose the wrong hardware. I also don't keep anything very sensitive on my phone is the first place, besides just the data it can passively collect about it's environment.
The problem with WhatsApp, to be clear, is that the app itself is a closed-source Facebook data hoover. If you stop it from seeing outside data it should be okay. It's also possible it can be put into a mode where it relays incoming messages after they're decrypted, but if they ever got caught doing that there'd be a bit of hell to pay, and I can use Wireshark as well as the next guy.
Fire and brimstone street corner preaching will get you further than you think. People comply just to shut you up. It's how I got my family on Signal, Bitwarden, Firefox, and DDG. They are all happier for it and have started a little bit of prosthelytizing themselves. You just have to be willing to stomach straining your relationships in the short-term lol
