64. Platform Capitalism with Chinese Characteristics by This Machine Kills
soundcloud.com
Cold open: https://www.npr.org/2021/04/13/984994360/he-tried-to-organize-workers-in-chinas-gig-economy-now-he-faces-5-years-in-jail We dig deeper into our explorations of technological and financial capitalism in China by discussing an invaluable source for rigorous, ruthless analysis: Chuang, a collective and journal “analyzing the ongoing development of capitalism in China, its historical roots, and the revolts of those crushed beneath it.” We then start getting into a long, detailed, investigative report on the working conditions of platform labor in China. While some ghouls in Western countries might look at the horrors we discuss and say, “See, it could be worse.” We must instead assert, “No, it should be better.” Some stuff we reference: • Delivery Workers, Trapped in the System | Chuang: https://chuangcn.org/2020/11/delivery-renwu-translation/ • Social Contagion: Microbiological Class War in China | Chuang: https://chuangcn.org/2020/02/social-contagion/ Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills TMK shirts are now available: bonfire.com/mech-luddite/ Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)

So this episode is about the capitalist immiseration being experienced by gig economy drivers in China rn. Sounds just as fucked as delivery drivers in the US tbh.

I was expecting more context from a left pod. Like maybe if China wasn't forced to compete with a ruthless global hegemon in the course of their development, for the survival of their project, their system might not be quite so authoritarian. Instead it's an episode of chinabad.

It's easy to be liberal when you're in a position of unassailable power. Not so easy when the US has the stated aim of killing your project by literally any means necessary.

Is this pod legit? Maybe I'm wrong about this, but don't the presenters write for vice and isn't it a vice pod? Is vice still owned by news corp?

Anyway, fwiw, the episode is worth listening to imo, more in the context of a great power media war and less as concern for the rights of chinese workers.

  • Hungover [he/him]
    ·
    4 years ago

    Like maybe if China wasn’t forced to compete with a ruthless global hegemon in the course of their development, for the survival of their project, their system might not be quite so authoritarian.

    The USSR managed to compete with a similar level of "authoritarianism", but way more worker's rights than the PRC. I don't think "we need a gig economy to outcompete the US" is a valid point. What's next? "The US uses forced labour, so to outcompete them we also have to rely on forced labour"?

        • Netdisk [none/use name]
          ·
          4 years ago

          No choice. In the 70s, the KGB (the only ones with the real numbers) concluded the Soviets were going to lose the Cold War. The US was going to grow its economy to gargantuan size and outcompete the Soviets in every category. But don't believe me, here's Marshal Nikolai Ogarkov, First Deputy Defense Minister and Chief of the General Staff, no friend of capitalism:

          "We cannot equal the quality of U.S. arms for a generation or two. Modern military power is based on technology, and technology is based on computers. In the US, small children play with computers... Here, we don't even have computers in every office of the Defense Ministry. And for reasons you know well, we cannot make computers widely available in our society. We will never be able to catch up with you in modern arms until we have an economic revolution. And the question is whether we can have an economic revolution without a political revolution."

          Well, they had the economic revolution by Gorbachev and the political revolution came after that. But the point is they were backed into a corner and had no choice.

    • pluggd [they/them]
      ·
      4 years ago

      “we need a gig economy to outcompete the US”

      Nobody said that. If you want to characterize things like that, it's more like "Another anomaly has arisen in the capitalist system we were forced to adopt to survive. We'll adapt and continue the development of our righteous project in the context of an agressive global hegemon ."

      • SpeedAnimal [none/use name]
        ·
        4 years ago

        The second is a garbage, content-less re-wording that sounds like a student trying to reach an arbitrary word count. lmao at "anomaly".

        • pluggd [they/them]
          ·
          4 years ago

          ehhh.....of course it was a rewording. That the point of the post. Any opinion on the issue?

          • SpeedAnimal [none/use name]
            ·
            4 years ago

            Your reaction to criticism of China's response to someone organising delivery and taxi app drivers is dumb and misses the point. It's a response that's clearly looking for excuses to justify it, and when people point it out, you deny it.

            I would suggest outlining an actual specific critique of the content of the podcast or sources it relies on, instead of staying at the abstract and not remotely useful "a podcast has a criticism of China and that makes me feel weird :("

            • pluggd [they/them]
              ·
              4 years ago

              A mischaracterization of the OP and an attack, but go off.

              The critique in the OP is fairly clear and understandable, and the questions about the pod valid. I think everyone should listen to it and be aware of the reporting, but not without considering context.

              • SpeedAnimal [none/use name]
                ·
                4 years ago

                A mischaracterization of the OP and an attack, but go off.

                It really wasn't. I want people to be able to seriously critically engage with things. Criticism is not attack, asking for specificity is not an attack.

                The critique in the OP is fairly clear and understandable

                No, it's vague and based on a general feeling that any criticism of China can be slotted in the "liberals say China bad" as a way to downplay or dismiss it out of hand.

                • pluggd [they/them]
                  ·
                  4 years ago

                  Criticism is not attack, asking for specificity is not an attack.

                  Of course not. Garbage, dumb, lmao, "makes me feel weird:(" are closer to attacks. I gonna leave it here unless you've got something cogent.