bibo
@biboofficial
am i going to get yelled at
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5vr5-WVgAM6Ih6?format=jpg&name=large
https://twitter.com/biboofficial/status/1412982293963018247
Western leftists: eat less meat, that is individual choice and it matters greatly!
Global south: burn less carbon, pls, the ocean is drowning us
Western leftists: :pit: :pit: :pit:
I am mostly talking about the OP whose responses have been some imagined fit by "western leftists". You is general, not you specifically. sorry about any confusion
But also, you are comparing disagreeing with this stupid meme with thinking we should shit on boycotts. You put more words in my mouth than you think I have to you. Calling western leftists triggered essentially because we understand that consumer choices will never matter in the grand scheme of climate change is not saying BDS is dumb. You created a dichotomy to complain about
Makes sense and this is a pretty common miscommunication throughout this thread by everyone.
No, I'm not. I'm seeing generalized shitting on all individualistic action, something that is done selectively around here. Everyone's against certain individualistic actions using sweeping arguments that apply just as much to other forms of "individualistic" solidarity that they not only support but bake into the expectations of this site. Saying, "you can't be leftist and transphobic" is something I agree with, but that is definitely some individualistic shaming. And when you see some IDpoler who got annoyed by that and stirred some shit, people here naturally assume they're a transphobe. Turn the conversation to the climate, where the Global South will face the brunt of devastation due to completely unnecessary or absurdly wrong production to and consumption by the imperial core, well now it's just pointless individualistic shaming that can never do anything, even having solidarity.
These are really just liberal rationalizations within a leftist aesthetic that knows collective action is better, but is turning around to punch at people supporting individual action in solidarity. It's the opposite of good organizing, it's like Trots getting pissed at each other in a room about the best way to overthrow a nation in the imperial core when they've never organized so much as a bake sale. We have nothing to offer and have to build on this kind of crap to capture the enthusiasm that exists in the real world.
I'm looking at the very real responses around here that are making ridiculous generalizations. But as you said, this can come across as me implying that you said them, and I don't mean to communicate that.
And I'm saying that this understanding is false. Individual calls to action are the building block for collective action, especially when you have no organization. The biggest difference between totally atomized consumer shaming and a slightl organized boycott like BDS is a leftist org giving it a name and talking about it so that it becomes a rallying cry. Responses like "they will never matter" means you have opted to not create that label or rallying cry, pointlessly giving up on the only tools we actually have right now and alienating people who are motivated to fight but don't know how. "Join an org" is not good advice for a lib. They'll join a letter-writing campaign with incompetent grandmas for a carbon tax supported by Exxon without updating their understanding, without becoming allies. "Join this org so you can do that" or "the system is inherently flawed but we can build on this by taking this action" are helpful.
You are acting like it is our job in this thread to create a rally cry you deem acceptable. The understanding that the majority of the damage happens at production and not consumption is not false, and no anecdotes or metaphors about Quakers serve as a counter argument. At least one person here posted theory right from the source about this. Take it up with Marx and Engels and their understanding of modes of production, cause that is where so many of us are coming to our conclusion.
People have not opted out of trying just because they recognize that shaming individuals for consumer choices wont make a difference or is just about ones' own sense of being better. Consumer choices are not the only tools we have at our disposal, but more than that, complaining about people complaining about corporations and strawmanning some imagined leftist is not creating allies either. Stop calling the kettle black
I'm not doing that at all.
I think this conversation has reached the end of its potential usefulness, I'm starting to only get subject changes and baseless accusations.
Hope you're not like this in irl organizing.
This is a convo on an internet forum over a fucking meme, there was never any potential usefulness. You act sanctimonious, get called on it, and then decide everyone else is acting shitting for telling you you are being rude. Youve made nothing but baseless accusations and wild subject changes in every response in this thread, and yet you cannot see that? The level of dissonance is mindboggling. No one asked to have a conversation with you on the nature of organizing, YOU decided everyone else was arguing against boycotts and not the meme that the thread is built around.
I hope you are not like this irl in any sense or I pray for the poor service workers or mailpeople you gaslight into a debate they are not interested in having. No one here asked you for a debate on the 50 topics you decided we all disagree with you on. Self crit or shut the fuck up with the mammoth replies cause I've been trying to nicely say leave me alone for a day now