I've heard this a lot and I get it, but I feel like there's a breaking point where most juniors just won't put up with it and there will be a drought of genuinely good talent in the industry. Personally the vast majority of people I know have given up on working whatever they wanted to work in (Embedded systems, cybersecurity, gaming, etc) and just became web developers or settle for whatever "easy" jobs they could find. Ironically you catch companies that don't hire juniors say things like "It's so hard to find anyone that cares" or recruiters saying hiring for one spot takes months because they can't find the perfect candidate. Something has to change imo, the path should become clearer than telling everyone to get 5 years of experience then come back when they're ready.
This isn't mentioning how recruiters now rely on AI to scan a CV and filter people. It doesn't even matter how good you are most of the time or what amazing projects you could make, you'll get filtered if you don't have that arbitrary thing they're asking for.
I completely agree. The experience sucks. I almost think programming would be better to follow a skilled trade path like electricians or something with apprenticeships and the like. The current system isn't working for anyone, really. I mean I suppose it works for people like me but that's not sustainable.
The thing is, it works like this in certain countries. At least in Switzerland and Germany it is possible to make an apprenticeship as a programmer. This means there is a structured path for the vocational education that must meet certain regulatory criteria. Normally this takes 3-4 years to finish and includes both, working at a company as well as visiting vocational school.
College is often done after finishing one's apprenticeship to broaden the understanding of more complex or advanced topics like security, architecture, project management, advanced math etc.
I don't understand why this system is not more common in other places. Programming (not CS) is very much like a craft and to large degrees can be taught as/similar to one.
I've heard this a lot and I get it, but I feel like there's a breaking point where most juniors just won't put up with it and there will be a drought of genuinely good talent in the industry. Personally the vast majority of people I know have given up on working whatever they wanted to work in (Embedded systems, cybersecurity, gaming, etc) and just became web developers or settle for whatever "easy" jobs they could find. Ironically you catch companies that don't hire juniors say things like "It's so hard to find anyone that cares" or recruiters saying hiring for one spot takes months because they can't find the perfect candidate. Something has to change imo, the path should become clearer than telling everyone to get 5 years of experience then come back when they're ready.
This isn't mentioning how recruiters now rely on AI to scan a CV and filter people. It doesn't even matter how good you are most of the time or what amazing projects you could make, you'll get filtered if you don't have that arbitrary thing they're asking for.
I completely agree. The experience sucks. I almost think programming would be better to follow a skilled trade path like electricians or something with apprenticeships and the like. The current system isn't working for anyone, really. I mean I suppose it works for people like me but that's not sustainable.
The thing is, it works like this in certain countries. At least in Switzerland and Germany it is possible to make an apprenticeship as a programmer. This means there is a structured path for the vocational education that must meet certain regulatory criteria. Normally this takes 3-4 years to finish and includes both, working at a company as well as visiting vocational school. College is often done after finishing one's apprenticeship to broaden the understanding of more complex or advanced topics like security, architecture, project management, advanced math etc.
I don't understand why this system is not more common in other places. Programming (not CS) is very much like a craft and to large degrees can be taught as/similar to one.