How does that change the present reality that the distinction exists?
It changes the present reality in that the borders of modern Ukraine (and most borders, really) are a construct and not representative of the history prior nor the ethnic and cultural makeup of each district- they were drawn by Lenin.
And that seems to be at least half of the underlying issue in the conflict here (the other half being western instigation).
Actually it exactly gives the answer to where the current borders should lie by pointing to the way the people who live there understand themselves.
Donbas Crimea etc, clearly should go to Russia because that’s what the people who live there want.
And the western part who have long seen themselves as Ukrainian should be Ukraine.
Anyway we weren’t talking about the borders. It was about the language and I pointed out that a distinct identity saw itself as existing and said that was the end of discussion for me about the existence of the language (as opposed to a dialect) so this wasn’t about the borders it was about the existence of a distinct Ukrainian national identity.
The present borders don’t correspond to the mapping of where that ethnic identity actually predominates so yeah I support the right of self determination for the Donbas etc too, absolutely I do.
It changes the present reality in that the borders of modern Ukraine (and most borders, really) are a construct and not representative of the history prior nor the ethnic and cultural makeup of each district- they were drawn by Lenin.
And that seems to be at least half of the underlying issue in the conflict here (the other half being western instigation).
Actually it exactly gives the answer to where the current borders should lie by pointing to the way the people who live there understand themselves.
Donbas Crimea etc, clearly should go to Russia because that’s what the people who live there want.
And the western part who have long seen themselves as Ukrainian should be Ukraine.
Anyway we weren’t talking about the borders. It was about the language and I pointed out that a distinct identity saw itself as existing and said that was the end of discussion for me about the existence of the language (as opposed to a dialect) so this wasn’t about the borders it was about the existence of a distinct Ukrainian national identity.
The present borders don’t correspond to the mapping of where that ethnic identity actually predominates so yeah I support the right of self determination for the Donbas etc too, absolutely I do.
Fair enough, TBH I don't think we were disagreeing with anything then.
Yeah I think when it comes down to brass tacks we agree lol.