Great discussion about a bleak book that's basically the PUA guide to politics, it seems, with an outlook that the hosts have (extremely qualified) respect for.
One of the best pods out there imo.
No parasocialities, not even hello goodbye, just the analysis.
I think there is an argument that structures of government are supported by surplus value in any case though
Could we explore the argument here? definitely interested in hearing more tbh, from people qualified to speak on it. I'm not.
just got the book off libgen so maybe I can find out. Hadn't heard of it tbh and was a bit blindsided by the hosts recognition of some of the points.
I’m also not qualified, but to me the book sounded like game theory solutions to politics, which seemingly are all the same.
As to the surplus value: the real (tm) power (already forgot what they are called ffs, selectorate?) is carried by people wielding structures bigger than themselves - military, bourgeoisie, leaders of unions and so on. But where does that power come from? Military doesn’t feed its own people (unless they are unleashed on feeding from the ground), bourgeoisie power relies on the workers, unions as well. It’s all politics of aristocracy. If bill gates had 100 million dollars, he couldn’t have influenced health policy on such scale as he does.
If say, soldier revolt happened, whatcha officers gonna do? They are powerless by themselves (re:russian revolution), despite tzar being their favorite figure :shrug-outta-hecks: .
If disintegration comes from below, it breaks down this mold (which is why ezri mentioned anarchist sympathies from reading it)
which is why ezri mentioned anarchist sympathies from reading it
Yeah, remember them saying that, which is very interesting. planning to listen to the episode again before starting on the book.
I guess I'm thinking about the episode in the context of all these new technologies of group control, so effective at preventing any non-approved organizing, and wondering if these technologies would stop any disintegration from below in ways that weren't possible before.
The systemization of politics, as outlined in the book and kind of admired on the episode, would not be a good development imo in ossified liberal democracies with constitutions written in the early 20th century.
Yeah, I'm open to that being the case.
But why were the hosts on the pod making such a big deal about the book then? was kind to surprised to see it came out in 2011, translated to chinese in 2014. I'm really gonna have to read it lol.
I got the sense it was heavily mathed out, which is always a weakness of nerds, lol:) I suspect it showed that there is game theory equilibrium of such system (which can one easily observe in usa, but whatevs)
heavily mathed out, which is always a weakness of nerds
:michael-laugh: true that. I wonder if the book was controversial when it came out.