This hit me hard this morning. Don't know why exactly, but I'm going to write down some thoughts.
It's easy to just say toxic masculinity. But also, clearly this therapist has gotten close enough to them to get them to open up this way. Which if you grew up a certain way is a really hard thing to do. Let's hope that this opens the actual individuals in the story up to work on their own happiness.
But I'm a bit saddened by the reactions here and I think they happen in society at large a lot as well. Quite quickly their feelings are contrasted with what women go through, or that everyone has this issue. While often valid points, I can see people opening up about their emotions, possibly for the first time since childhood, finding this very scary as they're taught that they'll be judged for it. It immediately being relativised based on the experiences of others usually doesn't lead to the man opening up to see those perspectives, but to shut down his emotions again because the first reaction is a slightly differently worded "suck it up buttercup, you're not special."
And this I think is the big problem with men opening up about their emotions. In both the traditional space they're shot down as being unmanly and in the leftist spaces they get shot down because there are more marginalised groups dealing with worse issues. There really isn't anywhere healthy to go for them to be able to open up without a form of disapproval for them opening up. I think a lot of men, and I would include myself in that, feel like they're not allowed to speak about their feelings in public spaces.
I was very disappointed to wake up and read the comments. That everyone wants to say it's just toxic old men and it's their fault for not getting therapy. It's just nobody cares. Everytime I post about men's mental health, someone also post, but women get depressed to, thank you for proving my point that no one cares. Everyone either tries to erase the hardships of the male experience or tries to pretend they don't exist.
That if you suggest anything other that it's men's fault their depressed, your some kind of lizard brained men's right activist. That to point out that poor men cant be emotionally broken and isolated so they can be forced longer and longer hour, is wrong because of the patriarchy, but also their fault for not wanting to go to therapy.
But it's still an important discussion to have, so I really appreciate you posting this this morning comrade. Don't give up as there's value to pointing out that men suffer just as much under patriarchy and that they deserve the space to express themselves as well.
Talking with other men about how we need to work through internalized sexism / patriarchy doesn’t rule out other issues. It’s an actionable step toward bettering our conditions.
Acknowledging that men need to also combat sexism is not erasing our hardships.
tbh my first reaction was "lol this isn't just straight dudes, go ask my bi enby ass about feeling dead inside." But you do have a point, and i think being raised as a boy has saddled me with a lot of the problems you're describing that i'm still working through in spite of having been able to emotionally open up more ages ago, in spite of having a decidedly nontoxic circle of friends, in spite of always having been an introspective person more aware than the average dude of what's going on inside me.
Admitting that patriarchy also harms men in very specific ways doesn't detract from adressing the problems of women and nonbinary people. Believing otherwise would mean to fall for the liberal fallacy of pitting people against each other over who's more oppressed when the only viable leftist answer to oppression is universal solidarity. Dismantling patriarchy is a necessary part of overcoming capitalism, as it's a core element of the superstructure maintaining capitalism and you can't dismantle the patriarchy without adressing all of the harm it does, including the harm it does to men.
I don't think she's gotten them to open up in a unique way - it sounds like she's bringing work home by treating her partners like a patient.
I would also say that the subset of men who are "casually dating a late 40s woman" is far more likely to have a shitty life than average. They're by definition single/not in an LTR and likely in their mid 40s to early 60s, probably have an ex wife and kids with varying amounts of stress, probably some other issues, etc.
I don't think noting guys have mental health issues and trouble opening up is bringing work home with her. That seems like a big jump, but maybe I'm missing something.
This hit me hard this morning. Don't know why exactly, but I'm going to write down some thoughts.
It's easy to just say toxic masculinity. But also, clearly this therapist has gotten close enough to them to get them to open up this way. Which if you grew up a certain way is a really hard thing to do. Let's hope that this opens the actual individuals in the story up to work on their own happiness.
But I'm a bit saddened by the reactions here and I think they happen in society at large a lot as well. Quite quickly their feelings are contrasted with what women go through, or that everyone has this issue. While often valid points, I can see people opening up about their emotions, possibly for the first time since childhood, finding this very scary as they're taught that they'll be judged for it. It immediately being relativised based on the experiences of others usually doesn't lead to the man opening up to see those perspectives, but to shut down his emotions again because the first reaction is a slightly differently worded "suck it up buttercup, you're not special."
And this I think is the big problem with men opening up about their emotions. In both the traditional space they're shot down as being unmanly and in the leftist spaces they get shot down because there are more marginalised groups dealing with worse issues. There really isn't anywhere healthy to go for them to be able to open up without a form of disapproval for them opening up. I think a lot of men, and I would include myself in that, feel like they're not allowed to speak about their feelings in public spaces.
I was very disappointed to wake up and read the comments. That everyone wants to say it's just toxic old men and it's their fault for not getting therapy. It's just nobody cares. Everytime I post about men's mental health, someone also post, but women get depressed to, thank you for proving my point that no one cares. Everyone either tries to erase the hardships of the male experience or tries to pretend they don't exist.
That if you suggest anything other that it's men's fault their depressed, your some kind of lizard brained men's right activist. That to point out that poor men cant be emotionally broken and isolated so they can be forced longer and longer hour, is wrong because of the patriarchy, but also their fault for not wanting to go to therapy.
This is one of the reasons why I've given up.
But it's still an important discussion to have, so I really appreciate you posting this this morning comrade. Don't give up as there's value to pointing out that men suffer just as much under patriarchy and that they deserve the space to express themselves as well.
Are you talking about the comments here or what?
Talking with other men about how we need to work through internalized sexism / patriarchy doesn’t rule out other issues. It’s an actionable step toward bettering our conditions.
Acknowledging that men need to also combat sexism is not erasing our hardships.
Removed by mod
tbh my first reaction was "lol this isn't just straight dudes, go ask my bi enby ass about feeling dead inside." But you do have a point, and i think being raised as a boy has saddled me with a lot of the problems you're describing that i'm still working through in spite of having been able to emotionally open up more ages ago, in spite of having a decidedly nontoxic circle of friends, in spite of always having been an introspective person more aware than the average dude of what's going on inside me.
Admitting that patriarchy also harms men in very specific ways doesn't detract from adressing the problems of women and nonbinary people. Believing otherwise would mean to fall for the liberal fallacy of pitting people against each other over who's more oppressed when the only viable leftist answer to oppression is universal solidarity. Dismantling patriarchy is a necessary part of overcoming capitalism, as it's a core element of the superstructure maintaining capitalism and you can't dismantle the patriarchy without adressing all of the harm it does, including the harm it does to men.
Well said, suffering is suffering and everyone deserves solidarity to move through that.
I don't think she's gotten them to open up in a unique way - it sounds like she's bringing work home by treating her partners like a patient.
I would also say that the subset of men who are "casually dating a late 40s woman" is far more likely to have a shitty life than average. They're by definition single/not in an LTR and likely in their mid 40s to early 60s, probably have an ex wife and kids with varying amounts of stress, probably some other issues, etc.
I don't think noting guys have mental health issues and trouble opening up is bringing work home with her. That seems like a big jump, but maybe I'm missing something.