Damn, it feels like your hypothetical system is designed to protect the interests of the rich and screw over the poor masses, and over time, increase the power the rich already have and further screw over the poor. I have some notes.
Like can you imagine if such a system existed in the real world. If, say, they wanted to violate the "right" of land ownership for poor people to segregate cities by, idk, skin colour. They could separate them with massive, uncrossavle highways. The people that make cars and people who own oil fields will love that! The issue is that there may or may not be some poor people that live there. But even the ones that own land, well, they can be removed because of the system of eminent domain. Theoretically it'd also apply to the wealthy, so it looks like a fair system to the layman. But the rich can afford to take time off work and better lawyers. So on paper it sounds fair, but in practice, it favours those who are already wealthy!
And it would feedback into even more advantages for the wealthy. All those highways will require cars, which is good, but cars need fuel. The fuel will need to be moved vast distances, your need a line of pipes from the oil fields! But that would once again require you to build a... "Line of pipes" across vast distances. But there are natives living along where those lines would go! And they theoretically benefit from the right to own land as well! And they're disadvantaged due to being survivors of a genocide. Treaties or no, the lines will get out through their land, they can fight back but obviously they're unlikely to win.
This doesn't seem like a well thought out system. The only other thing the rich would have to do is to own media and education. Then they can pump out articles and curriculum one after the other saying this system is the only system that works! They can even tell people, over multiple generations, that this the only way, that the right to land is a human right (not food or water though, that would cut into the profits of some other rich people, obviously). And make it legal for the rich to have a stranglehold on the government, call it something other than corruption, make it sound less harmful. Eventually you can erode the political structure to consist only of 2 groups of people who both agree with your "right" to land ownership, so even if the masses wanted to (which they don't, thanks to media and education ;)), they literally can never change it
Yeah imagine if this system existed irl. It's a dystopia disguised as a normal country. And basically everyone in it would believe theres no other way, since any alternative has been demonized since before their grandparents were born.
You're almost there. The problem is not that power corrupts, by this logic there's nothing you can do and every country is doomed. The issue is not individual, but collective.
The problem is that the whole structure of the system is made for the interests of the wealthy that detain all the power and not for the hard working majority of people. Lobbying is the perfect example of that.
And it's not about good or bad, but simply colliding antagonic class interests where the class that holds the power always wins.
It's easy to get doomerish and think that people or power is the problem, that's precisely the position the ruling class wants you to take because it keeps then safe and keeps us under their capitalistic boots.
I invite you to read Marx. Once you understand the systemic root cause of the issues we see everyday, it's truly freeing. I suggest the Communist Manifesto since it is really short and can get you the general grasp, just be aware that it's language is very dated.
Unless there is someone to patiently walk them through it, they will not understand Marx trying to read it themselves. It's pretty clear from their lazy reading, sloppy replies and fall back on cliches they are either taking the piss or mildly literate at best.
No progress will be made from self-education on this one imo, particularly with something as not completely modern as Marx. Maybe ABC's of Socialism.
I get what you're saying but I don't think this person is just trying to take the piss on us, from what I read here they look like just another misinformed liberal.
You're completely right about the rest tho, I usually suggest easier entry points like some stuff by the Deprogram boys, I don't know why I didn't do that this time.
When I suggested Marx I was more thinking about the manifesto since, while it's language is very dated, it is still good enough to start and get a grasp while being extremely short, but I should have said that in the comment too.
Liberals trying not to essentialize political systems into supposed "common" human culture in order to retroactively justify their own decaying societies impossible challenge.
American exceptionalism brain mf (and that's me being nice).
Damn, it feels like your hypothetical system is designed to protect the interests of the rich and screw over the poor masses, and over time, increase the power the rich already have and further screw over the poor. I have some notes.
Like can you imagine if such a system existed in the real world. If, say, they wanted to violate the "right" of land ownership for poor people to segregate cities by, idk, skin colour. They could separate them with massive, uncrossavle highways. The people that make cars and people who own oil fields will love that! The issue is that there may or may not be some poor people that live there. But even the ones that own land, well, they can be removed because of the system of eminent domain. Theoretically it'd also apply to the wealthy, so it looks like a fair system to the layman. But the rich can afford to take time off work and better lawyers. So on paper it sounds fair, but in practice, it favours those who are already wealthy!
And it would feedback into even more advantages for the wealthy. All those highways will require cars, which is good, but cars need fuel. The fuel will need to be moved vast distances, your need a line of pipes from the oil fields! But that would once again require you to build a... "Line of pipes" across vast distances. But there are natives living along where those lines would go! And they theoretically benefit from the right to own land as well! And they're disadvantaged due to being survivors of a genocide. Treaties or no, the lines will get out through their land, they can fight back but obviously they're unlikely to win.
This doesn't seem like a well thought out system. The only other thing the rich would have to do is to own media and education. Then they can pump out articles and curriculum one after the other saying this system is the only system that works! They can even tell people, over multiple generations, that this the only way, that the right to land is a human right (not food or water though, that would cut into the profits of some other rich people, obviously). And make it legal for the rich to have a stranglehold on the government, call it something other than corruption, make it sound less harmful. Eventually you can erode the political structure to consist only of 2 groups of people who both agree with your "right" to land ownership, so even if the masses wanted to (which they don't, thanks to media and education ;)), they literally can never change it
Yeah imagine if this system existed irl. It's a dystopia disguised as a normal country. And basically everyone in it would believe theres no other way, since any alternative has been demonized since before their grandparents were born.
Genius, and evil
You could have saved the wall of text and just said America is also bad...It is.
When someone has power, power corrupts. It's a tale as old as time.
You're almost there. The problem is not that power corrupts, by this logic there's nothing you can do and every country is doomed. The issue is not individual, but collective.
The problem is that the whole structure of the system is made for the interests of the wealthy that detain all the power and not for the hard working majority of people. Lobbying is the perfect example of that.
And it's not about good or bad, but simply colliding antagonic class interests where the class that holds the power always wins.
It's easy to get doomerish and think that people or power is the problem, that's precisely the position the ruling class wants you to take because it keeps then safe and keeps us under their capitalistic boots.
I invite you to read Marx. Once you understand the systemic root cause of the issues we see everyday, it's truly freeing. I suggest the Communist Manifesto since it is really short and can get you the general grasp, just be aware that it's language is very dated.
Here are other good entry points:
Why You Should be a Socialist in 2024 by Second Thought
Will Life be Better Under Socialism? by Hakim
How Capitalism sells poverty as modesty & why equality isn't a practical goal. by Yugopnik
Unless there is someone to patiently walk them through it, they will not understand Marx trying to read it themselves. It's pretty clear from their lazy reading, sloppy replies and fall back on cliches they are either taking the piss or mildly literate at best.
No progress will be made from self-education on this one imo, particularly with something as not completely modern as Marx. Maybe ABC's of Socialism.
I get what you're saying but I don't think this person is just trying to take the piss on us, from what I read here they look like just another misinformed liberal.
You're completely right about the rest tho, I usually suggest easier entry points like some stuff by the Deprogram boys, I don't know why I didn't do that this time.
When I suggested Marx I was more thinking about the manifesto since, while it's language is very dated, it is still good enough to start and get a grasp while being extremely short, but I should have said that in the comment too.
Power over others represents a problem, power with and through others (collective power) represents a solution.
Liberals trying not to essentialize political systems into supposed "common" human culture in order to retroactively justify their own decaying societies impossible challenge.
American exceptionalism brain mf (and that's me being nice).