It's not news to us but it is news to the majority of the population here in the West who for decades have not been exposed to anything other than the lies of the liberal imperialist propaganda apparatus.
I am just wondering how western elite thought that Russia gaining all the Donbass, kherson and others would be beneficial for them. Lol 😂 . This ukraine thing is the biggest loss for the West and US
Initially they really deluded themselves into thinking they could defeat or at least severely degrade Russia. Instead all they managed to do is make Russia much, much stronger in all respects: militarily, economically and diplomatically.
The West all but admits the first two, and the only reason they still can't see the last is because they are stuck in their bubble where they think that the entire "international community" consists only of the West and its vassals.
I've been under the impression that the game plan was to use Ukraine as a quagmire to tie up Russia, test new technologies, force the EU into an even more subservient, buffer state role, and use Ukraine as a martyr to rally Russophobic Western sentiments and manufacture consent for new "security" measures in the West that would further silence opposition. I feel the ultimate goal was really China - using the martyred Ukraine as a call to arms to "save Taiwan", as it were (the news painting Russia as villainous made a big deal of effort trying to tie China to everything Russia did in the war, and comparing the situation in Ukraine to the situation with Taiwan).
It's the only thing I could think of that made any kind of sense. The only alternative is that they genuinely believed Ukraine could have beaten Russia with only military aid. I don't doubt some people in positions of power could be convinced of that, but at the highest levels I have to believe this was just another attempt by the US to keep Russia off-balance enough that the US could try and cut China down.
Disagree. While they did achieved lot of points especially with EU, they really hoped for Russia to collapse or at least plunge into crisis which will force it to retreat, regime change and comply with US imperialism (that's why Ukraine was never planned to militarily win, they just had to stand for a time and that's why the initial loss of much territory was irrelevant to US).
It's not the 4D chess, US really fucked it big time with consequences mounting, and it's not really surprising considering their plan makers isn't what they used to be during cold war.
I feel the ultimate goal was really China - using the martyred Ukraine as a call to arms to “save Taiwan”, as it were (the news painting Russia as villainous made a big deal of effort trying to tie China to everything Russia did in the war, and comparing the situation in Ukraine to the situation with Taiwan).
Yes, the ultimate target was China, but not like this. More directly, the most dangerous thing for US is either EU-Russia or Russia-China scenario. Neutralising Russia would do away with both, put US in much stronger position against China and ensure continuation of US hegemony for forseeable future. So while they succeeded in breaking up the EU-Russia closing and severly delayed EU-China, they pushed Russia closest to China they were since the Sino-Soviet split.
I agree, and in addition, they wanted to sell off all their old stockpiled weapons to make way for new ones. Part of it was literally just a fire sale to lush out old product.
always important to remember that the military is a for profit enterprise. You can't separate the military from the people making the military's stuff. There is a collection of extremely powerful corporations that are constantly banging the war drums.
Not really, the whole point was to destroy Europe.
The US simply cannot afford to have Europe backing China in the coming showdown between the two giants. Nord Stream 2 construction was completed in 2021, and its certification kept getting delayed to prevent the Europeans from gaining energy sovereignty, after which they will no longer need to be dependent the US. Hence the war in Ukraine was needed to sever the connection between Europe and Eurasia.
The Ukraine war was dragged out precisely to allow this strategic goal of the US empire to be achieved.
I think the ukraine war was provoked to weaken
and bleed Russia . It didn't happen. Europe never had any independence since WW2. It always had close ties with the US but since the ukraine war, Europe has become a joke for the people of the 3rd world. As a person from 3rd world I have no sympathy for Europeans ans their cucked NATO left. German, French government supporting Israel have no shame either. Ukraine war has showed the 3rd world , US is just a paper tiger and the reign of tyranny by NATO and atlantic countries is over.
That doesn’t mean the Europeans didn’t try though.
The US financial capital took a huge hit in the aftermath of the 2009 financial crisis and at the same time, Nord Stream 1 came online in Germany that allowed Europe to recover its industrial sector relatively quickly and pulled it out of the eurozone crisis and the recession. Euro went up to 30% stronger than the dollar. It was Europe’s chance to gain its energy sovereignty and independence from a weakened US capitalism. That’s why they went and built a second Nord Stream pipeline. And that’s why this motion had to be stopped.
Europe and ex colonial countries like France got rich by exploiting Africa and allowing IMF to do austerity on the 3rd world. No sympathy for Europe and the US. Let them suffer and vanish into a bygone era.
Nordstream was disliked by the US agencies, it was Merkel who had some courage but now you have cucked governments. European governments will always be racist, vassals of US.
It's not news to us but it is news to the majority of the population here in the West who for decades have not been exposed to anything other than the lies of the liberal imperialist propaganda apparatus.
I am just wondering how western elite thought that Russia gaining all the Donbass, kherson and others would be beneficial for them. Lol 😂 . This ukraine thing is the biggest loss for the West and US
Initially they really deluded themselves into thinking they could defeat or at least severely degrade Russia. Instead all they managed to do is make Russia much, much stronger in all respects: militarily, economically and diplomatically.
The West all but admits the first two, and the only reason they still can't see the last is because they are stuck in their bubble where they think that the entire "international community" consists only of the West and its vassals.
I've been under the impression that the game plan was to use Ukraine as a quagmire to tie up Russia, test new technologies, force the EU into an even more subservient, buffer state role, and use Ukraine as a martyr to rally Russophobic Western sentiments and manufacture consent for new "security" measures in the West that would further silence opposition. I feel the ultimate goal was really China - using the martyred Ukraine as a call to arms to "save Taiwan", as it were (the news painting Russia as villainous made a big deal of effort trying to tie China to everything Russia did in the war, and comparing the situation in Ukraine to the situation with Taiwan).
It's the only thing I could think of that made any kind of sense. The only alternative is that they genuinely believed Ukraine could have beaten Russia with only military aid. I don't doubt some people in positions of power could be convinced of that, but at the highest levels I have to believe this was just another attempt by the US to keep Russia off-balance enough that the US could try and cut China down.
Disagree. While they did achieved lot of points especially with EU, they really hoped for Russia to collapse or at least plunge into crisis which will force it to retreat, regime change and comply with US imperialism (that's why Ukraine was never planned to militarily win, they just had to stand for a time and that's why the initial loss of much territory was irrelevant to US).
It's not the 4D chess, US really fucked it big time with consequences mounting, and it's not really surprising considering their plan makers isn't what they used to be during cold war.
Yes, the ultimate target was China, but not like this. More directly, the most dangerous thing for US is either EU-Russia or Russia-China scenario. Neutralising Russia would do away with both, put US in much stronger position against China and ensure continuation of US hegemony for forseeable future. So while they succeeded in breaking up the EU-Russia closing and severly delayed EU-China, they pushed Russia closest to China they were since the Sino-Soviet split.
Yours is absolutely correct. Bidens , UK, Germans are a big time dumb people.
I agree, and in addition, they wanted to sell off all their old stockpiled weapons to make way for new ones. Part of it was literally just a fire sale to lush out old product.
always important to remember that the military is a for profit enterprise. You can't separate the military from the people making the military's stuff. There is a collection of extremely powerful corporations that are constantly banging the war drums.
Not really, the whole point was to destroy Europe.
The US simply cannot afford to have Europe backing China in the coming showdown between the two giants. Nord Stream 2 construction was completed in 2021, and its certification kept getting delayed to prevent the Europeans from gaining energy sovereignty, after which they will no longer need to be dependent the US. Hence the war in Ukraine was needed to sever the connection between Europe and Eurasia.
The Ukraine war was dragged out precisely to allow this strategic goal of the US empire to be achieved.
I think the ukraine war was provoked to weaken and bleed Russia . It didn't happen. Europe never had any independence since WW2. It always had close ties with the US but since the ukraine war, Europe has become a joke for the people of the 3rd world. As a person from 3rd world I have no sympathy for Europeans ans their cucked NATO left. German, French government supporting Israel have no shame either. Ukraine war has showed the 3rd world , US is just a paper tiger and the reign of tyranny by NATO and atlantic countries is over.
That doesn’t mean the Europeans didn’t try though.
The US financial capital took a huge hit in the aftermath of the 2009 financial crisis and at the same time, Nord Stream 1 came online in Germany that allowed Europe to recover its industrial sector relatively quickly and pulled it out of the eurozone crisis and the recession. Euro went up to 30% stronger than the dollar. It was Europe’s chance to gain its energy sovereignty and independence from a weakened US capitalism. That’s why they went and built a second Nord Stream pipeline. And that’s why this motion had to be stopped.
Europe and ex colonial countries like France got rich by exploiting Africa and allowing IMF to do austerity on the 3rd world. No sympathy for Europe and the US. Let them suffer and vanish into a bygone era.
Nordstream was disliked by the US agencies, it was Merkel who had some courage but now you have cucked governments. European governments will always be racist, vassals of US.