And Godamn I wish knew more about ideology to make a cogent argument for it. Because while I’m not a Christian, I can’t help but notice how Jesus basically symbolizes most of what I believe as a socialist.

Really could be my autistic brain stretching some of the minute details, but think about it for a sec. You have two groups of people with a strong belief (sharing art and music with a group of likeminded people and giving praise to something you believe controls your life) and there are these fuckers in both cases selling shit and disturbing the realness of it all

Idk maybe I’m just a hater, but the two situations seem logically the same to me.

  • ComradeRat [he/him, they/them]
    ·
    9 months ago

    Take for instance the ontological proof [of god]: "that which I conceive for myself in a real way is a real concept for me", something that works on me. In this sense, all gods, the Pagan as well as the Christian ones, have possessed a real existence...If somebody imagines he has a hundred thalers...he will incur debts on the strength of his imagination

    (Marx, "The Difference Between the Democritean and Epicurean Philosophy of Nature", 1841)

    And as for Rome! Read Cicero! The Epicurean, Stoic or Sceptic philosophies were the religions of cultured Romans when Rome had reached the zenith of its development. That with the downfall of the ancient states their religions also disappeared requires no further explanation, for the "true religion" of the ancients was the cult of "their nationality", of their "state".

    (Marx, "[On the] Leading Article in No. 179 of Kölnische Zeitung, July 10 1842")

    Up till now the political consitution has been the religious sphere, the religion of national life, the Heaven of its generality over against the Earthly existence of its activity.

    (Marx, "Contribution to the Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Law", 1843 Marx's emphasis)

    Man, even if he proclaims himself an atheist through the medium of the state, that is, if he proclaims the state to be atheistic, still remains in the grip of religion, precisely because he acknowledges himself only by a roundabout route, only through an intermediary. Religion in precisely the recognition of man in a roundabout way.

    (Marx, "On The Jewish Question", 1843 my emphasis)

    [In modern society religion] is no longer the essence of community, but the essence of difference...[Religion becomes] only the abstract avowal of specific perversity, private whims and arbitrariness.

    (Marx, "On The Jewish Question, 1843 Marx's emphasis)

    Religion is the general theory of [the world of class society], its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in a popular form, its spiritualistic point of honour, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, its universal source of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realisation of the human essence because the human essence has no true reality...Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world...It is the opium of the people.

    (Marx, "Introduction to a Contribution to the Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Law")

    Young Marx definitely would agree. Let's jump over to Capital!Marx

    In order, therefore, to find an analogy [for commodity-fetishism] we must take flight into the misty realm of religion. There the products of the human brain appear as autonomous figures endowed with a life of their own, which enter into relations both with each other and with the human race. So it is in the world of commodities with the products of men's hands. I call this the fetishism which attaches itself to the products of labour as soon as they are produced as commodities, and is therefore inseparable from the production of commodities.

    Yeah, he'd agree too.

    • stigsbandit34z [they/them]
      ·
      9 months ago

      So, in a sense, Jesus noted commodity fetishism before Marx himself

      And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all who sold and bought in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money-changers and the seats of those who sold pigeons. He said to them, "It is written, 'My house shall be called a house of prayer,' but you make it a den of robbers."

      Honestly, like I said, I have a completely different perspective on the Bible as an art medium. Jesus really represents a lot of stuff we would consider socialist

      • ComradeRat [he/him, they/them]
        ·
        9 months ago

        Less Jesus and more biblical prophets / the bible generally. In his September 1843 letter to Arnold Ruge, he called religion a "register of the theoretical struggles of mankind"(MECW3 p143). He seems to have treated it throughout his life similarly to Adam Smith or Ricardo; i.e. as a theoretical work with tons of flaws but some useful ideas.

        The best example I can think of for commodity fetishism in the Bible is actually in Isaiah and Jeremaiah; as a condemnation of idol worship:

        Isaiah 2:7-8

        7 Their land is full of silver and gold; there is no end to their treasures. Their land is full of horses; there is no end to their chariots.

        8 Their land is full of idols; they bow down to the work of their hands, to what their fingers have made.

        Jeremaiah 10:5

        5 Like a scarecrow in a cucumber field, their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk.

        Compare to Marx in Capital

        Commodities cannot themselves go to market and perform exchanges in their own right. (Fowkes TL p178)

        Although invisible, the value of iron, linen and corn exists in these very articles: it is signified through their equality with gold, even though this relation with gold exists only in their heads, so to speak. The guardian of the commodities must therefore lend them his tongue(Fowkes TL p.189)

    • stigsbandit34z [they/them]
      ·
      9 months ago

      Holy shit thanks for compiling all of this stuff it’s super intriguing and makes me feel validated lol