Hey hexbears just want to update everyone.
We took the weekend to properly consider and are removing: programming.dev , aussie.zone , and lemm.ee from our allow-list.
We will look at refederation with lemm.ee after local-only communities are developed. When that feature is available we would really like to consider changing every hexbear community to local-only except for chapotraphouse, askchapo, news, and the_dunk_tank. The final say on if a community is local only or not is 100% up to the mod team on that community.
The reason for this is that lemm.ee despite having twice our monthly active users has a 700k annual comment rate to hexbear's 1 million, in addition lemm.ee has very little active communities that do not exist on hexbear.
Resulting in lemm.ee benefit of federation being votes and views, with a secondary benefit of comments.
However, as expressed by users belonging to marginalized groups, comments from .ee users are often lib-shit and in some cases outright hostile. While many on hexbear love dunking on these lost libs the duty to protect marginalized users is much more important.
The end vote for programming.dev and aussie.zone was a tie, so we decided to break the tie in favor of defederation. The decision on lemm.ee was much harder as the average user did express desire to remain federated however the admin team decided that a temporary removal from our allow-list was the best option.
As an admin team we have never wanted to prioritize growth, and we wanted to give federation with liberal instances a try, however we consider providing a safer browsing experience for marginalized users more important than the opportunity to dunk.
While user side instance blocking and local sort are options, neither address the issue of federated instance users coming into posts in hexbear communities to make reactionary comments.
Thank you everyone who gave input and please provide any feedback, comments, concerns, etc in comments.
final vote count:
federation
all 32
aussie.zone 27
lemm.ee 41
programming.dev 27
lemmy.blahaj.zone 5
defederation
all 40
aussie.zone 19
lemm.ee 4
programming.dev 19
lemmy.blahaj.zone 43
~
It's been made pretty open and safe to contribute to the federation discussion, I don't understand why folks would feel the need to not participate in the thread and instead through backchannels. If that many folks didn't feel comfortable with lemmy.ee federation they should've
d
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I value both your perspective, commitment to ensuring a safe space for marginalized comrades, and work put into this project. I understand and empathize with your position as I can't imagine it's easy and you and the rest of the team have demonstrated a desire to protect our marginalized comrades; but I don't think it's impossible for Hexbear to be able to act as both outreach and a safe space. I value my own safety from fascists and absurd bigots, but I don't think mass defederation from cooperative lib instances is the way to do it.
Has the team considered conducting a study on marginalized populations on Hexbear to try and evaluate if defederation is really wanted from the marginalized groups on Hexbear? It seems like a lot of folks aren't arguing on the importance of keeping folks safe, but instead on how many want that specific tactic to be used. Perhaps if we take a survey of the real lived experiences of those who we're focusing on we'd have concrete evidence to point to for admin decisions atleast.
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If anybody on the team is willing to get a cryptpad account or is trusted to host cryptpad then a cryptpad form may be a solid option. I'm already in the /c/traa matrix, if y'all'd need help setting this up or want another resource to work on this I'd be happy to help.
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it was probably not a mistake. I liked stumbling across dogshit .ee takes but it probably was unhealthy for me I usually ended up wishing violence upon them, and that's for a slophog like me, can't imagine its good for normal people either
Basically, it turns out a DM vote is worth more than a comment vote. That's what it boils down to. There's no point in tabulating the votes if the admins aren't going to honor them anyways. They might as well just have a discussion thread and make their decision based on the vibes of the thread. It would've saved them the trouble of keeping track of votes and be more honest.
I don't think it is coincidence that the pro federation users didn't go to the effort of dming the mods. Like you might prefer federation but not being federated is unlikely to make the site inaccessible to you because of a lack of shitlibs posting reactionary comments.
I slightly lean toward federation but overall don't care that much. My vote should be weighted less accordingly.
I don't think there's anything dishonest in running a poll then deciding based on new information not to do as the poll suggests, when you clearly explain your reasons and have a dialogue about them like we're doing now.
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Glad to see people acknowledging the power of the trans posting vanguard
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It was never a vote. It was a gauge of opinions. The
opinions just didn't have as solid a argument behind them. If we really do want to go a dunking we can make accounts on other instances. The people harmed by federation dont have that option.
do you see how "I want to dunk on libs" and "federation makes me feel unsafe on this website" aren't equal positions that require the same consideration? even anarchists don't go this far.
No, it has nothing to do with dunking on libs for its own sake, but on sustaining this website. In simplified terms, people come for/from the dunking and stay for the safe space. By defederating from the last major "normie" instance (lemmygrad is also cut off, lemmy.ml already has a reputation for being "tankie," and every other instance is too small), it cuts off a source of newcomers.
This does not bode well for the future of this site. Unlike most people, I saw pre-federation Hexbear as slowly circling down the drain with members cannibalizing each other over pointless struggle sessions. As someone who only occasionally lurked in the original subreddit, I still do not and perhaps never will understand what people saw in pre-federation Hexbear. Hot take, but the vibes back then completely sucked, full of awkward passive aggressive energy that erupted when people started getting personal over treats. Frankly, pre-federation Hexbear didn't have a future.
Federation introduced some needed life to the site even if the vast majority of Ledditors are complete shitheads. As we embark on post-federation Hexbear, I think Hexbear is going to resume circling down the drain with members once again cannibalizing each other over pointless struggle sessions. Non-federation outreach didn't do jack shit during pre-federation Hexbear, so I do not have confidence that non-federation outreach will be somehow different in post-federation Hexbear.
Awoo's comment is going to be prophetic if the admins actually defed for real.
Respectfully, this is may or may not be true but ultimately it is a supposition. For myself and many others, the dunking is alright but not in the least why I am here.