Almost 20 years after the invasion of Iraq and we're right back where we were then, but worse because now fucking NATO has decided they'd rather get into a nuclear pissing match with Putin than take one fucking L. Meanwhile stateside it's suddenly back in vogue to attack LGB and especially T rights, liberals and chuds have put aside their differences to play in the war drum circle together, the anti-anti-imperialist "left" is taking its victory laps online, the pandemic that still is killing and will continue to kill thousands every day is suddenly yesterday's news, and all we have to show for two decades of protests and agitation and organizing is a handful of better contracts for chuddy trade unions and a couple unionized Starbucks.
TL;DR: All hail the cockroaches who will inherit the fallout-choked Earth, I've no doubt they'll do a better job running the place than we did.
There is literally, undeniably, absolutely, zero (0) (none) percent chance that NATO will deploy troops against Russian regulars in Ukraine. Anyone telling you that there is even the slightest chance in any possible scenario is lying to you or so uninformed that they probably woke up three hours ago from a 500 year long coma.
Also, NATO is not taking an L right now, this is the biggest W they've had since the fall of the Union. The fact that Russia's attacking it's neighbors finally brings back the whole reason for the alliance to exist, and the fact that the country being attacked is non-NATO while other, smaller NATO countries are ignored by Russia just help them in their pitch to the remaining NATO fence-sitters in the region.
It's interesting to me that as Russian missiles hit blood banks in Ukraine, some people choose to look past that and instead invent a fictitious and absurd NATO response to get mad at.
NATO taking an L here refers to being told No and backing off on eastward expansion. The US empire has been world hegemon so long, that the idea of doing geopolitics -- actually negotiating around competing interests -- has become foreign to them. By all accounts they had solid evidence telling them Russia is willing and ready to go to war if their red line is crossed. Putin offered a pretty long list of demands -- unreasonable, certainly, but that's how you start negotiations/haggling.
The US/NATO flat out refused to negotiate on any of these points. They've take Bush Jr's asinine "we don't negotiate with terrists" and expanded it to include nuclear super powers! Contemplate for a second the galaxy brain necessary to come up with this shit. We're in the opening stages of a Second Cold War and the people in charge in the West seem intent on playing by the "End of History" ruleset. Unless they pull their heads out of their collective ass we absolutely are on the road to nuclear holocaust.
I still don't see how this is an L?
Russia tells NATO not to expand, NATO tells them to fuck off, and in response the Russians invade basically the only non-NATO country still on their borders. All this does is prove to NATO that a) it needs to expand to check Russian aggression (which was only hypothetical until the invasion), and b) Russia won't invade a NATO country because they know they'll lose (or the world will end in nuclear hellfire, probably both).
Dude, go and reread the post you originally replied to. Nobody is saying that nato has taken an L with this situation. They have refused to take even a minimal loss by conceding to Russia the right to a buffer zone. It is now abundantly clear they knew that this would lead to war but refused to negotiate a compromise and instead engineered a situation where violence became inevitable.
Beyond the immediate loss of life going on right now, this is an extremely dangerous foreign policy stance. "Putin bad therefore whatever he asks for we cannot give it to him" is a path to mutual annihilation. When you make negotiations impossible, what is there left but war? If the West insists that it will give nothing away then the only way to get what you want is by force.
Mind you, none of this is in any way a defense of Putin and his politics. But we live in late capitalism and the (re)emerging world powers are seeing the US empire in decline. They're demanding a seat at the table, and if the US does not manage to find a way to step down gracefully from the throne, we may all burn.
The post I replied to said that NATO/The West decided to get in a "nuclear pissing match" rather than take an L. Since it's obvious to everyone that nothing nuclear will happen (and indeed there will be no direct combat between NATO and Russian forces), that would imply that the only other option is for NATO to take the L, but there's no L to take, everything's working out in their favour.
Are you having reading difficulties? Yes, they have not taken an L, this is working out in their favor at the low low cost of innocent lives lost and an escalation of geopolitics in a direction where negotiation is unwanted and impossible. For as long as superpowers have nuclear arsenals the danger is present and near imminent. The refusal to talk, to compromise, to let the fuck go every now and then make it, on a long enough timeline, inevitable. That's the pissing match.
There's no "pissing match" here, no tit-for-tat, no NATO retaliation of any kind. NATO will just continue to do what it has done since it's founding and Russia will continue to decline in power and relevance like it has since the height of the Soviet Union. Nukes will mean that Russia will always have some relevancy, but just look at Pakistan to see what the floor of relevance is for a nuclear power (and Pakistan has a larger population that's actually growing and and economy with the potential to grow as well).
Aight. I'm done :wall-talk:
You're putting a lot of faith in a declining empire and a cornered but expansionist, right-wing revanchist national power to not have death drives.
Well, I think that Russia will take a place as a secondary power aligned with China in the New World Order™, it's not like Russia is going to collapse from within or be invaded by it's neighbors, just a slow decline as their population wanes, their military ages, and oil and gas are less and less profitable. Spain and Portugal fell from great heights too without much trouble.
The L would be them conceding the right to a buffer zone as nohaybanda said, and not playing a game of will-they-won't-they with Ukraine getting NATO membership.
the only people taking Ls here are hardheaded Leftists refusing to admit they were wrong about this.
It's not even that embarrassing to say you got this one wrong. This invasion makes no sense for Russia and all signs point to it being a pyrrhic victory (in terms of geopolitics, not the actual fighting). You can just say "it just didn't make sense for Russia to invade, so I didn't think they would". But instead some "leftists" just decide to start supporting imperialism now. I'm sure that if hexbear was around in the 1800's the top posts would be about how the French invasion of Algeria is justified because of the British Raj.