I never thought I'd have to deal with this, but here we are. It's not common sense that racism is shameful and bad.

I teach a group of fourteen-year-olds who still think dropping the n-word is funny, but I can deal with those situations and made it pretty clear to them that if I ever hear it (or anything similar) in my classroom, they will have earned a ticket to the principal's office and I will be talking to their parents.

However, there is a more complex situation that has been occupying my mind lately and I would appreciate your thoughts and advice.

A kid turned up to my class wearing ladder laced boots with white laces. (For those who don't know, this means the person is a white supremacist, lace colour was/is used to showcase identity and can differ from place to place) It caught my eye when I heard her asking a friend if her laces were visible enough the way she folded the cargo pants she was wearing. I asked her if she was aware of the meaning of white laces and she said yes, but added that according to her skinhead friend, lace code was no longer taken seriously. I told her that while that is true, you can still get in a lot of trouble in certain places and that I do not want to see it on her again.

I also mentioned it to another teacher who immediately went and talked to her about it, but I feel like she is going to keep wearing the laces as a fuck you.

She wants to be cool and edgy, but she has no idea what shaky ground she's on. She often makes racist remarks, but nothing that could get her into trouble so far.

I will stand my ground and speak to the principal about this if she continues wearing the laces, but very very few people know about their meaning so it's not taken as seriously as if she wore a swastika or something similar. Still, I told her that if I know (and I'm not in those circles) then someone else will, too.

The bigger question here is sensitization, how I could not just enforce not showcasing racism symbols as a part of her outfit but to get through to her and the others who might think they are cool and edgy.

Thank you for reading!

  • @OrnluWolfjarl@lemmygrad.ml
    hexbear
    53
    5 months ago

    As a fellow teacher, you are going about this the wrong way. Your student sounds like the type who'll keep escalating if you keep escalating, particularly over something that there's no school rule against it. This escalation might spill over into other areas and damage your relation with other kids.

    Here's my advice:

    1. Stop thinking of her as a kid/student and think of her as a fallible human. You can't "save" her by treating her as an inferior or by acting dominant. She will just turtle down and probably get worse out of reaction. 9/10 times, these kids are seeking attention, and that's the only way they feel they can get it. You need to show her she can have your attention via other means. Some empathy and patience goes a long way.

    2. Accept that your efforts might not succeed. Desperation that you are not doing enough will not just make you feel guilty/depressed, it will also backfire on your attempts to teach her to be a better human. Do the best you can, and hope it works. If it doesn't, you tried. Keep in mind that what you do might not have an immediate effect, but might actually help her stop being a racist years later.

    3. Remember you are not the only influence in her life. You should investigate quietly where her racism is stemming from. Usually it comes from parents or other friends. Understanding the source will help you better in helping.

    4. Don't tell her to not be racist. Show her how and why she shouldn't be a racist. Try to involve her in activities that bring her into contact with people who she's racist against.

    5. Set a good example to be followed. People desire happiness and acceptance. Show her, in a positive way, that it's easier to be happy and accepted by not being a racist, rather than being one.

    6. This is the most important bit: just sit down and talk with her. Not about racism, but about life. Make a connection, so she can be more open with you and more accepting of your advice. Kids respond really well when you show them some rudimentary respect and treat them like grown-ups. They become even more responsive when you prove that you can be dependable for them.

    Fixing the behaviour of kids is a lot like treating drug addicts. You won't achieve anything long-term with anger, dominance and punishment.

    • bubbalu [they/them]
      hexbear
      22
      5 months ago

      This is really well written, thank you! I teach lower elementary but this is like the universal playbook for problem behavior.

    • Earthling@lemmygrad.ml
      hexagon
      hexbear
      18
      5 months ago

      Also, if you allow me to pick your brain with another question: How would you react to a student using the n-word or a similar, generally recognised expression, especially with people of that group present?

      • @OrnluWolfjarl@lemmygrad.ml
        hexbear
        15
        5 months ago

        I would go serious to show that it's not funny, but also calm to prevent defensiveness.

        I would then pick apart why they said it. Asking "why did you feel the need to say that?", and then explaining how that makes ME feel about it, is a great starting point. For any sort of disruptive behaviour the best approach (in my opinion) is to be a mirror so they can see themselves through your eyes.

        Example:

        Teacher: why did you feel the need to say that?

        Student: I dont know

        T: did you find it funny?

        S: I dont know, maybe. Other people say it too

        (at this point don't do the adult argument of "what other people do shouldnt concern you")

        T: well, I dont know how other students here feel about it, but personally I am disappointed in you. I thought better of you, and I would like to respect you, but right now I can not. It's a word that has a very negative history, and I'd suggest you learn more about it, before using it so lightly next time.

        I would also engage the students who are most affected by it and ask them to express how they feel about it.

        Another good tactic is to turn it back on the perpetrator and ask them how they would feel if someone used so freely a term they found offensive.

      • @FishLake@lemmygrad.ml
        hexbear
        13
        5 months ago

        You might benefit from Restorative Justice practices. https://www.iirp.edu/school-resources/guides-for-implementation

        There are many RJ practices out there. The general schema is to involve all parties when harm is committed to collectively address or seek to heal from the harm. Your student might benefit from empathetic writing prompts.

        “I said _____. It made me feel _____. I think others would feel ____.”

    • @FishLake@lemmygrad.ml
      hexbear
      13
      edit-2
      5 months ago

      For point 4, ask the adults supervising those activities if it’s ok for you to bring her and explain the situation (especially if the adults are of the same group she is racist toward). You wouldn’t want her presence/behavior to be harmful to others. I can imagine some volunteer opportunities where they are required to wear coveralls or PPE or other boots would help too.

      But all in all amazing comment. Especially point 5, an approach I need to implement better with my students as well.

    • Earthling@lemmygrad.ml
      hexagon
      hexbear
      9
      5 months ago

      Thank you for your comment! First of all, it's all great advice and I'll try my best to apply it in my practice.

      They are a great group of intelligent kids and we often have adult discussions, I always make space for their interests and questions and nothing is taboo, we often talk about current events, politics, etc. They like me, as far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately, I don't spend that much time with them, I only work at the school two days a week and have no means of organising any events or lectures myself.

      I think her feeling is stemming from her interest in her origin, as she grew up in Germany and showed lots of interest in history, but I feel like she went off track somewhere around December or January. She also mentioned having skinhead friends at one point. How do you think I could learn more about this?

      I am not one for punishment and never used any dominance or anger, I try to be very approachable and ask for feedback on my lessons from kids and parents, but I feel like this might be where I draw the line. There are lots of minority POC kids in our school and general area, I want them to feel safe, so I would really like to be firm with not allowing the above mentioned display of racism. At the same time, I want her to really understand and become a better person from this experience, so I'm really at loss about how I could achieve this.

      • @OrnluWolfjarl@lemmygrad.ml
        hexbear
        4
        5 months ago

        From your original post it sounded to me like you were being assertive towards her, so sorry if I misunderstood.

        For the skinhead friend: I'd suggest you ask common friends during a break privately. Approaching the ones that also seem concerned might be the best course of action.

        Having discussions in class is great, but try to engage her in dialogue. Take a seat and let them take charge of the discussion. Just moderate to keep things civil, calm and in the realm of logic rather than emotions. Keep calm and try to be/seem open to her ideas and ask questions. Sometimes people just need a wall to bounce their thoughts on so they can actually process them.

        If this change is as recent as you say then it might just be a phase as she is thinking things through. Give her time and opportunity to do that.

        I'd also suggest you let her explore other aspects of her German origins. There's no great examples to be positive about people of African descent in German history, but still, she might get interested/distracted by other parts of German history.

        • Earthling@lemmygrad.ml
          hexagon
          hexbear
          5
          5 months ago

          I made it very clear that she should not wear white laces again, but other than that I tried my best to explain why.

          I'm willing to give her the time to figure things out and ask for guidance if needed, but this was unacceptable in my eyes.

          As for her origin, I don't believe she's German herself, just lived there for a while. But encouraging her to explore other parts of the culture might be worth a shot. Thank you again!

  • @PosadistPotatofish@lemmygrad.ml
    hexbear
    7
    5 months ago

    Coming from the perspective of a former student who dealt with a lot of spoiled white racists: if one of your students punches the other for being racist to them, back up the student who was getting hate speech directed at them. I don't think teachers can directly fix the problem, but it means a world of a difference to us if we're supported when we defend ourselves as opposed to punished for it.

    I still hate some of my old teachers for their complicity.

      • ikilledtheradiostar [comrade/them, love/loves]
        hexbear
        3
        edit-2
        5 months ago

        Yes I do, racist ideology needs to be treated with contempt not with tolerance.

        Say things like "wow you're a real piece of shit", " if that's what you believe then I have no respect for you."

        • @porcupine@lemmygrad.ml
          hexbear
          14
          5 months ago

          If you really hated racism, you'd simply beat up the child instead of coddling them with mere words. In fact, beating up the kid is a half measure that lets them potentially do racism again in the future. Better to behead the child in class to teach the others a lesson about what is and isn't appropriate social behavior.

          • @ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml
            hexbear
            7
            edit-2
            5 months ago

            Line them up against the wall like the fascist they are. Show all the other children the consequences of trying to be edgy by demonstrating the effects of execution by anti-aircraft gun.

            This is real socialist education.

          • ikilledtheradiostar [comrade/them, love/loves]
            hexbear
            2
            edit-2
            5 months ago

            Realisticly the kid needs to be removed from the source of fash and reeducated, the parents investigated. Of course in our shitsack world that would harm the child immeasurably and we get the very liberal approach. Which is why we have all these goddamn Nazis running around.

        • @ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml
          hexbear
          12
          5 months ago

          It’s a child. You want an adult; a teacher or any person in a position of authority to bully a child. The kid isn’t some KKK grand wizard, they are an attention seeking dickhead.

          If that’s what you want to say then I have no respect for you, and I hope you are either young or do not work with children.

          Read the comment below from a teacher as to how to deal with teens who want to be edgy or attract attention. You don’t nip this behavior in the bud by acting like an ass. That’s how you get fired, and escalate the behavior by playing right into their hands.

          • ikilledtheradiostar [comrade/them, love/loves]
            hexbear
            3
            5 months ago

            They are seeking attention, from other fash. By wearing Nazi identifies they're signaling to other Nazis they're one of them. The kid knows all this per above. Tolerating it even a little is bad. I wouldn't allow that kid in my class if in saw them wearing that shit after I discovered they knew exactly what they were doing. The parents allowing that is child abuse. This lib shit is why the us is the fash shithole it is.

            • @ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml
              hexbear
              9
              edit-2
              5 months ago

              They are signaling to other Nazis in a… middle school classroom? No, they aren’t signaling anything. They want to provoke a response and get attention from people who are expressly against what they’re showing. It’s a rebellion to authority for them. They’re copying what they think the “cool” kids do, and try it themselves.

              Kids are shitheads, the parents could be diehard communists and doing everything they can to prevent this, but teens will always try to rebel and be cool. Nazi salutes, yelling penis, saying the n-word, browsing liveleak, anything that is taboo is fair game to those underdeveloped idiots.

              Again, the commenter bellow represents what should be done. You have to challenge them without making them defensive. If the conduct repeats over and over, then yes, you will have to escalate. But if you do that out the gate they will see the engagement as a victory because they got under your skin.

              It’s not tolerating. It’s drawing them into a situation where you have the upper hand. If you unleash a full broadside, they’ll just hunker down and double down.

              Again, I feel like you’re overlooking that kids rarely act this way because they actually care about white supremacy or racism. They do it because it gets big responses like what you’re recommending. It plays right into their hands, and it’ll make the behavior worse if you fight fire with fire.

              • ikilledtheradiostar [comrade/them, love/loves]
                hexbear
                1
                edit-2
                5 months ago

                They put those boots on for the people they hang out with when not a school. Such as the skinhead friend.

                Calling edgy is a huge reach. I was an edgy teen and hung out with other edgy teens. We didn't say or do racist things BC that was the purview of the racist teens. They had their own table and everything. Hung out with their older siblings friends and their extremely fash parents. They had to eventually quit wearing the stars and bars but they just moved on to other signifiers. Lot of the older ones, 16+, had neat little angular peeks of tattoos showing too. A cool little breeding ground that was just 'tolerated'.

                The commenter below's strategy would be for 8-12. A 14 year old is going to tell you enough that quit bothering them.

    • Earthling@lemmygrad.ml
      hexagon
      hexbear
      8
      5 months ago

      I am her teacher, not her peer. I want her to come out a better person on the other end, that is the only approach I am willing to take because that is my role here. I get your anger, I was furious when it happened, and so was the other teacher (who is part of this minority group I mentioned) but still. It's a child and so the parents are to be held responsible for something going SO wrong.

      • @SadArtemis@lemmygrad.ml
        hexbear
        4
        5 months ago

        Bullying kids (when you're in a role as a educator no less) isn't the answer, I agree. But don't just pussyfoot around the issue either- and don't wait till you're both behind closed doors to tell this brat off. You are responsible for more than just this one wayward child- you have other students who are equally children, and who need to see that this is not acceptable, for various reasons... and these children take priority, whether it be in educating them away from this racist bullshit, or showing them that racism being targeted against them is not accepted- they take priority well before the offending, racist kid does.

        A good teacher- hell, any good adult or anyone with a position of power and authority- won't let people, kids no less, run their mouth with racism. It is an immediate failing on your part if the school environment is such that she goes around spewing racist remarks and dogwhistling (and these things never remain that subtle, when the whole point is her being smug and edgy to begin with) with her... shoelaces and/or whatever. Because the impact is much greater than just the one brat.

        If you ask me? You should ask any non-white students how comfortable they feel. If you see her dogwhistling and saying racist shit in public you should also confront her in public. That much is not bullying, rather the opposite- it is working to prevent a culture of bullying, and to show others that this does not fly.

      • ikilledtheradiostar [comrade/them, love/loves]
        hexbear
        3
        5 months ago

        What do you feel you owe to the other kids? Because the way I see it you're tacitly agreeing that that kid's ideology (or presentation of it) is acceptable to be displayed.