The problem is, there are almost no computers with Linux preinstalled, and Linux doesn't have a good enough "app" ecosystem. There's Flatpak and Snap, but those probably aren't entirely ideal yet. And even programs with Linux versions don't have a download link on their websites like people are used to, which is frustrating. Linux distros also don't have good enough onboarding. They need tutorials or something that guide people through first time use.
there are almost no computers with Linux preinstalled
This is the only issue with Linux adoption. Most people are not aware that there are viable alternatives to Windows or that their computer can even run anything other than Windows. If computers came with Linux preinstalled, Linux usage would rise accordingly. Native (proprietary, closed-source) application support for Linux would rise also to meet this new demand (overwhelming majority of open-source apps support Linux already).
Linux doesn’t have a good enough “app” ecosystem.
Linux has an amazing app ecosystem. The overwhelming majority of open-source apps support Linux natively. Many proprietary (closed-sourced) apps support Linux natively too, most of the rest being compatible with Wine (a program that allows you to run most Windows programs on Linux). In fact, many of the apps you use on a daily basis are actually open-source and support Linux natively. Most others have comparable or even superior open-source alternatives available on Linux.
There’s Flatpak and Snap, but those probably aren’t entirely ideal yet.
Flatpak and Snap are simply not needed. All Linux distributions already come with a package manager which solves the problems of dependency management (which mind you, Windows does nothing to solve, causing this infamous phenomenon called 'DLL hell').
Your package manager does things such as:
automatic (hands-free) installation of applications
automatic (hands-free) updating of applications
automatically notifying you if your applications are outdated
automatic (hands-free) uninstalling of applications
Flatpak and Snap are solutions in search of a problem that doesn't exist.
And even programs with Linux versions don’t have a download link on their websites like people are used to, which is frustrating.
Linux distributions come with package managers, which allow you to search and install programs without ever going onto random websites, downloading random executables, and running said random executables with admin privileges.
The fact that Windows users are forced to even do such a thing is an absolute travesty for security, even creating an entire industry around "anti-virus" software that is supposed to stop users from accidentally running malware.
To have programs maintained by trusted persons completely sidesteps the problem of getting malware bundled into your random applications off the internet.
Linux distros also don’t have good enough onboarding. They need tutorials or something that guide people through first time use.
There are a million different tutorials on getting onto Linux. They are even featured on mainstream tech sites and such. It is impossible to miss them.
Flatpak and Snap are simply not needed. All Linux distributions already come with a package manager which solves the problems of dependency management (which mind you, Windows does nothing to solve, causing this infamous phenomenon called ‘DLL hell’).
You realize every package in a distro's package manager is maintained and tested by the developers of that distro right? You can't just make an app and have it work with any Linux distro, with any package manager, that's now how that's designed. All package manager packages work with specific dependency versions and specific versions of libc. Which is why flatpak and snap exist, so you can bundle your own dependencies. And package managers actually can have DLL hell (if you use a 3rd party repository) unlike Windows programs, because Windows programs simply bundle all their libraries (like a Flatpak/Snap app). With most package managers, you can usually only have one version of a package installed, which mostly works because it's all maintained by the same people. Linus Torvalds himself has pointed this stuff out. Nobody is going to develop, maintain, and do customer support for software for 20 different Linux distros, and no distro maintainer is going to be able to publish every single program to their central repository.
The fact that Windows users are forced to even do such a thing is an absolute travesty for security, even creating an entire industry around “anti-virus” software that is supposed to stop users from accidentally running malware.
Except in the age of the web browser, going to a website and downloading software is one of the easiest ways to get software. And if software is signed, then it's unlikely to have malware, and if it is sandboxed like Flatpak/Snap, then it's less likely that the malware can do anything.
Linux distributions come with package managers, which allow you to search and install programs without ever going onto random websites, downloading random executables, and running said random executables with admin privileges.
Flatpak also has Flathub (which has actual, up to date software, like Firefox and Steam), and there's a similar service for Snap.
You can’t just make an app and have it work with any Linux distro, with any package manager, that’s now how that’s designed.
Yes you can. It's called a "statically linked executable". It's called an "AppImage".
All package manager packages work with specific dependency versions and specific versions of libc.
So?
Which is why flatpak and snap exist, so you can bundle your own dependencies.
There are so many other ways to bundle your dependencies other than replying on dogshit like Flatpak and Snap.
And package managers actually can have DLL hell (if you use a 3rd party repository) unlike Windows programs, because Windows programs simply bundle all their libraries (like a Flatpak/Snap app).
I have never encountered this, even on a rolling-release distro.
unlike Windows programs, because Windows programs simply bundle all their libraries (like a Flatpak/Snap app).
Have you ever encountered missing DLL errors? Because I sure have, and that's certainly not something I've ever experienced on Linux.
Nobody is going to develop, maintain, and do customer support for software for 20 different Linux distros
Whenever developers distribute their own software, it always ends up like shit-infested malware havens like Chrome web store and other crapware stores. Developers add tracking code to their software, which of course no one reviews and removes because they're the ones distributing their own software! I don't trust developers to distribute their own software! I don't trust developers to randomly change and break things by their own accord like fucking Mozilla does. But I will still use that shit (Firefox), and it is okay, because the sewage water has been cleaned and filtered by distro maintainers.
Except in the age of the web browser, going to a website and downloading software is one of the easiest ways to get software. And if software is signed, then it’s unlikely to have malware, and if it is sandboxed like Flatpak/Snap, then it’s less likely that the malware can do anything.
Navigating to some random website, clicking on 3 fake SEO links in front of the actual site, scrambling around to find the download link, clicking through 50 screens to install the app, unclicking all the adware installation boxes, just to install some random app instead of clicking one button in the app store is soo much easier!
Also, I don't trust developers to not bundle malware with their software. See: JDownloader2 bundling adware in their installer and such. (I will still use that shit though, it's amazing.)
Also, why sandbox malware when you can just never install malware in the first place?
Flatpak also has Flathub (which has actual, up to date software, like Firefox and Steam), and there’s a similar service for Snap.
Don't use Debian Stable if you want up-to-date applications.
You realize AppImage is just the same thing as FlatPak/Snap right?
All package manager packages work with specific dependency versions and specific versions of libc.
So?
Yeah, what's so bad about requiring specific versions of every software library provided ahead of time. This would be like having to wait for Microsoft to update a Java version provided with Windows.
I have never encountered this, even on a rolling-release distro.
Yeah, because painstaking work was put in to make sure programs in the distro repository are all compatible, which means they're all out of date the instant a new version of a package comes out.
Have you ever encountered missing DLL errors? Because I sure have, and that’s certainly not something I’ve ever experienced on Linux.
I literally have not. Maybe the last time you used Windows was like 10 years ago or something?
Cool! I don’t want developers to distribute software!
Just completely out of touch nonsense. Developers or every single other platform release their own software. Not doing that is like requiring Apple to not only review every update like they do, but do the compilation and bug testing themselves.
Whenever developers distribute their own software, it always ends up like shit-infested malware havens like Chrome web store and other crapware stores. Developers add tracking code to their software, which of course no one reviews and removes because they’re the ones distributing their own software! I don’t trust developers to distribute their own software! I don’t trust developers to randomly change and break things by their own accord like fucking Mozilla does. But I will still use that shit (Firefox), and it is okay, because the sewage water has been cleaned and filtered by distro maintainers.
You're never getting "the year of the Linux desktop" if you are centralizing all software releases into a handful of organizations. How could a Linux nerd basically advocate for the iOS app store but even more exclusive? Most desktop software for Linux isn't even available in package managers! Like Steam! Also you're just conflating stuff breaking with it not being picked over by distro maintainers, when the actual answer is that SOFTWARE THAT IS ACTUALLY DEVELOPED AND UPDATED HAS BUGS. Most of the stuff in package managers is updated very infrequently relative to most software today.
Also, I don’t trust developers to not bundle malware with their software. See: JDownloader2 bundling adware in their installer and such. (I will still use that shit though, it’s amazing.)
Then maybe software should actually be sandboxed... like Flatpak and Snap. You're saying every software program written ever needs to be security reviewed by OS developers?!?!
Don’t use Debian Stable if you want up-to-date applications.
On Windows I don't have to care about stable and unstable, I can just go to a program's website and click download or the program updates itself. Every piece of software on my computer is on the latest released version, because it comes directly from the developers.
Distributions are called distributions because they distribute software. Let them do their damn job!
Maybe that's why every single one of them is 15 years behind Windows lmao.
You realize AppImage is just the same thing as FlatPak/Snap right?
And it's irrelevant because I don't want developers to distribute their software in the first place.
Yeah, what’s so bad about requiring specific versions of every software library provided ahead of time. This would be like having to wait for Microsoft to update a Java version provided with Windows.
And? So what?
Yeah, because painstaking work was put in to make sure programs in the distro repository are all compatible, which means they’re all out of date the instant a new version of a package comes out.
Everything is by definition out-of-date when something new replaces it. Your statement is meaningless.
I literally have not. Maybe the last time you used Windows was like 10 years ago or something?
Well I fucking have, and I don't give a shit if you're lucky enough to have never encountered random fucking DLL errors and have to fix it yourself by manually downloading the right version of the library.
Just completely out of touch nonsense. Developers or every single other platform release their own software. Not doing that is like requiring Apple to not only review every update like they do, but do the compilation and bug testing themselves.
Ok and? And every single one of those platforms are filled with shit-infested crapware!
You’re never getting “the year of the Linux desktop” if you are centralizing all software releases into a handful of organizations. How could a Linux nerd basically advocate for the iOS app store but even more exclusive? Most desktop software for Linux isn’t even available in package managers! Like Steam! Also you’re just conflating stuff breaking with it not being picked over by distro maintainers, when the actual answer is that SOFTWARE THAT IS ACTUALLY DEVELOPED AND UPDATED HAS BUGS. Most of the stuff in package managers is updated very infrequently relative to most software today.
Lmao??? What the actual fuck are you even talking about?
You’re never getting “the year of the Linux desktop” if you are centralizing all software releases into a handful of organizations. How could a Linux nerd basically advocate for the iOS app store but even more exclusive?
"Handful of organizations" being a wide variety of different and varied open distributions that you can freely contribute to...
Who the fuck is stopping you from installing out of package manager software on Linux? Nobo-fucking-dy!
Most desktop software for Linux isn’t even available in package managers!
Who the fuck is out of touch here? Who the fuck actually uses Linux here? What the fuck? THE VAST MAJORITY of desktop software for Linux is fucking available in package managers. I have not fucking met a single fucking desktop application that was not packaged. I don't know what the fuck you're trying to use that isn't packaged.
Like Steam!
??? What trash distro are you using that doesn't package Steam for fucks sake?!
Also you’re just conflating stuff breaking with it not being picked over by distro maintainers, when the actual answer is that SOFTWARE THAT IS ACTUALLY DEVELOPED AND UPDATED HAS BUGS.
I cannot even parse this fucking sentence lmao
Most of the stuff in package managers is updated very infrequently relative to most software today.
Cool. Use your fucking Debian Stable and project it onto all distributions.
Then maybe software should actually be sandboxed… like Flatpak and Snap. You’re saying every software program written ever needs to be security reviewed by OS developers!!!
Distro != OS
The people developing Linux, GNU, GNOME, are not the same people who are maintaining your fucking Debian Stable.
The whole point of a software distribution is to distribute software. It does so very well. The software works and fits together snugly, unlike Windows apps which are alien to each other.
On Windows I don’t have to care about stable and unstable, I can just go to a program’s website and click download or the program updates itself. Every piece of software on my computer is on the latest released version, because it comes directly from the developers.
Who the fuck asked you to care about unstable releases? In fact, on a software download page, you will be presented with unstable versions! Also, enjoy 10 million different shitty auto-updating systems that don't fucking work and just link you to the installer so that you can go through the 50-step process again, lol.
Maybe that’s why every single one of them is 15 years behind Windows lmao.
The whole point of a software distribution is to distribute software. It does so very well. The software works and fits together snugly, unlike Windows apps which are alien to each other.
Apparently not well enough because nobody actually uses Linux desktops. You keep coming up with more random features of that software delivery system like "fits together snugly". All of these benefits don't actually provide value to anyone other than software programmers who use Linux for server deployment, which is who package managers are actually designed around (because that's what Linux is actually used for). Ultimately, having all these different distros repeating the same work over and over releasing software updates, acting as a middle man between users and software, is inefficient and hobbles actual software. It also means if you want to create a new Linux distro, you now have to compile every single software program still in use, in order for the distro to be useful to the widest range of people.
OK. Enjoy your adware-laden software you downloaded from random sites on the internet. Enjoy your software that just randomly breaks. Enjoy your forced updates. Enjoy your npm-style software repositories. Enjoy your ransomware that came with that hot new Windows-fixer program. I'll enjoy the modern comforts of a package manager and software distributions. You enjoy your shitware.
Apparently not well enough because nobody actually uses Linux desktops.
On a communist website, this person doesn't understand that free markets aren't actually free. Why aren't ISPs good? Why don't the people just switch ISPs when one offers a better service? Inertia inhibits competition. The fact that Windows is the default on all systems inhibits competition.
The problem is, there are almost no computers with Linux preinstalled, and Linux doesn't have a good enough "app" ecosystem. There's Flatpak and Snap, but those probably aren't entirely ideal yet. And even programs with Linux versions don't have a download link on their websites like people are used to, which is frustrating. Linux distros also don't have good enough onboarding. They need tutorials or something that guide people through first time use.
This is the only issue with Linux adoption. Most people are not aware that there are viable alternatives to Windows or that their computer can even run anything other than Windows. If computers came with Linux preinstalled, Linux usage would rise accordingly. Native (proprietary, closed-source) application support for Linux would rise also to meet this new demand (overwhelming majority of open-source apps support Linux already).
Linux has an amazing app ecosystem. The overwhelming majority of open-source apps support Linux natively. Many proprietary (closed-sourced) apps support Linux natively too, most of the rest being compatible with Wine (a program that allows you to run most Windows programs on Linux). In fact, many of the apps you use on a daily basis are actually open-source and support Linux natively. Most others have comparable or even superior open-source alternatives available on Linux.
Flatpak and Snap are simply not needed. All Linux distributions already come with a package manager which solves the problems of dependency management (which mind you, Windows does nothing to solve, causing this infamous phenomenon called 'DLL hell').
Your package manager does things such as:
automatic (hands-free) installation of applications
automatic (hands-free) updating of applications
automatically notifying you if your applications are outdated
automatic (hands-free) uninstalling of applications
Flatpak and Snap are solutions in search of a problem that doesn't exist.
Linux distributions come with package managers, which allow you to search and install programs without ever going onto random websites, downloading random executables, and running said random executables with admin privileges.
The fact that Windows users are forced to even do such a thing is an absolute travesty for security, even creating an entire industry around "anti-virus" software that is supposed to stop users from accidentally running malware.
To have programs maintained by trusted persons completely sidesteps the problem of getting malware bundled into your random applications off the internet.
There are a million different tutorials on getting onto Linux. They are even featured on mainstream tech sites and such. It is impossible to miss them.
You realize every package in a distro's package manager is maintained and tested by the developers of that distro right? You can't just make an app and have it work with any Linux distro, with any package manager, that's now how that's designed. All package manager packages work with specific dependency versions and specific versions of libc. Which is why flatpak and snap exist, so you can bundle your own dependencies. And package managers actually can have DLL hell (if you use a 3rd party repository) unlike Windows programs, because Windows programs simply bundle all their libraries (like a Flatpak/Snap app). With most package managers, you can usually only have one version of a package installed, which mostly works because it's all maintained by the same people. Linus Torvalds himself has pointed this stuff out. Nobody is going to develop, maintain, and do customer support for software for 20 different Linux distros, and no distro maintainer is going to be able to publish every single program to their central repository.
Except in the age of the web browser, going to a website and downloading software is one of the easiest ways to get software. And if software is signed, then it's unlikely to have malware, and if it is sandboxed like Flatpak/Snap, then it's less likely that the malware can do anything.
Flatpak also has Flathub (which has actual, up to date software, like Firefox and Steam), and there's a similar service for Snap.
Yes you can. It's called a "statically linked executable". It's called an "AppImage".
So?
There are so many other ways to bundle your dependencies other than replying on dogshit like Flatpak and Snap.
I have never encountered this, even on a rolling-release distro.
Have you ever encountered missing DLL errors? Because I sure have, and that's certainly not something I've ever experienced on Linux.
Cool! I don't want developers to distribute software!
Whenever developers distribute their own software, it always ends up like shit-infested malware havens like Chrome web store and other crapware stores. Developers add tracking code to their software, which of course no one reviews and removes because they're the ones distributing their own software! I don't trust developers to distribute their own software! I don't trust developers to randomly change and break things by their own accord like fucking Mozilla does. But I will still use that shit (Firefox), and it is okay, because the sewage water has been cleaned and filtered by distro maintainers.
Distributions are called distributions because they distribute software. Let them do their damn job!
Navigating to some random website, clicking on 3 fake SEO links in front of the actual site, scrambling around to find the download link, clicking through 50 screens to install the app, unclicking all the adware installation boxes, just to install some random app instead of clicking one button in the app store is soo much easier!
Also, I don't trust developers to not bundle malware with their software. See: JDownloader2 bundling adware in their installer and such. (I will still use that shit though, it's amazing.)
Also, why sandbox malware when you can just never install malware in the first place?
Don't use Debian Stable if you want up-to-date applications.
You realize AppImage is just the same thing as FlatPak/Snap right?
Yeah, what's so bad about requiring specific versions of every software library provided ahead of time. This would be like having to wait for Microsoft to update a Java version provided with Windows.
Yeah, because painstaking work was put in to make sure programs in the distro repository are all compatible, which means they're all out of date the instant a new version of a package comes out.
I literally have not. Maybe the last time you used Windows was like 10 years ago or something?
Just completely out of touch nonsense. Developers or every single other platform release their own software. Not doing that is like requiring Apple to not only review every update like they do, but do the compilation and bug testing themselves.
You're never getting "the year of the Linux desktop" if you are centralizing all software releases into a handful of organizations. How could a Linux nerd basically advocate for the iOS app store but even more exclusive? Most desktop software for Linux isn't even available in package managers! Like Steam! Also you're just conflating stuff breaking with it not being picked over by distro maintainers, when the actual answer is that SOFTWARE THAT IS ACTUALLY DEVELOPED AND UPDATED HAS BUGS. Most of the stuff in package managers is updated very infrequently relative to most software today.
Then maybe software should actually be sandboxed... like Flatpak and Snap. You're saying every software program written ever needs to be security reviewed by OS developers?!?!
On Windows I don't have to care about stable and unstable, I can just go to a program's website and click download or the program updates itself. Every piece of software on my computer is on the latest released version, because it comes directly from the developers.
Maybe that's why every single one of them is 15 years behind Windows lmao.
And it's irrelevant because I don't want developers to distribute their software in the first place.
And? So what?
Everything is by definition out-of-date when something new replaces it. Your statement is meaningless.
Well I fucking have, and I don't give a shit if you're lucky enough to have never encountered random fucking DLL errors and have to fix it yourself by manually downloading the right version of the library.
Ok and? And every single one of those platforms are filled with shit-infested crapware!
Lmao??? What the actual fuck are you even talking about?
"Handful of organizations" being a wide variety of different and varied open distributions that you can freely contribute to...
Who the fuck is stopping you from installing out of package manager software on Linux? Nobo-fucking-dy!
Who the fuck is out of touch here? Who the fuck actually uses Linux here? What the fuck? THE VAST MAJORITY of desktop software for Linux is fucking available in package managers. I have not fucking met a single fucking desktop application that was not packaged. I don't know what the fuck you're trying to use that isn't packaged.
??? What trash distro are you using that doesn't package Steam for fucks sake?!
I cannot even parse this fucking sentence lmao
Cool. Use your fucking Debian Stable and project it onto all distributions.
Distro != OS
The people developing Linux, GNU, GNOME, are not the same people who are maintaining your fucking Debian Stable.
The whole point of a software distribution is to distribute software. It does so very well. The software works and fits together snugly, unlike Windows apps which are alien to each other.
Who the fuck asked you to care about unstable releases? In fact, on a software download page, you will be presented with unstable versions! Also, enjoy 10 million different shitty auto-updating systems that don't fucking work and just link you to the installer so that you can go through the 50-step process again, lol.
>installs Debian Stable
>can't read
>why is all my software outdated help
Apparently not well enough because nobody actually uses Linux desktops. You keep coming up with more random features of that software delivery system like "fits together snugly". All of these benefits don't actually provide value to anyone other than software programmers who use Linux for server deployment, which is who package managers are actually designed around (because that's what Linux is actually used for). Ultimately, having all these different distros repeating the same work over and over releasing software updates, acting as a middle man between users and software, is inefficient and hobbles actual software. It also means if you want to create a new Linux distro, you now have to compile every single software program still in use, in order for the distro to be useful to the widest range of people.
OK. Enjoy your adware-laden software you downloaded from random sites on the internet. Enjoy your software that just randomly breaks. Enjoy your forced updates. Enjoy your npm-style software repositories. Enjoy your ransomware that came with that hot new Windows-fixer program. I'll enjoy the modern comforts of a package manager and software distributions. You enjoy your shitware.
On a communist website, this person doesn't understand that free markets aren't actually free. Why aren't ISPs good? Why don't the people just switch ISPs when one offers a better service? Inertia inhibits competition. The fact that Windows is the default on all systems inhibits competition.
nerd