feels to me like there should be kind of outreach and way to connect these communities, i know here is more 'left unity' and shitposty than gzd but still the overlap between the 2 seems too large for it to be worth having 2 separate tiny communities instead of combining them into one bigger one.
i see a ton of stuff that's literally just reposted on both anyway, and neither here or lemmygrad is anywhere close to the size that r/gzd or /r/cth was on reddit. feels like they should be interconnected somehow or one should absorb the other. the online non-corporate social media 'leftist' community is far too small to be split up this much.
i personally vote for hexbear because i like the bear.
federation sounds sweet, imagine we become one big leftist social media comm. We could shit post and not do praxis by the hundreds of thousands, like the good old days.
IIRC there's something being worked on with the site back end. It'll take some time though.
The left needs to build it's own alt-tech and organize online much like the right.
People's Liberation Shitposters when?
I think we should split away from web 2 and make our own version of web 3.0 based on something like IPFS but without the crypto bullshit. People hosting and sharing content collaboratively with no money involved.
I'd recommend just using Freenet since anything on the WWW is endlessly surveilled and will eventually be censored.
let a thousand lemmies bloom. i want there to be so many federating left forums that we can do cross-site leftist infighting
Exactly this is mainly just because I don't want to have to go on 2 different websites.
Here me out, just learn another language and get off English forums
I think the problem right now is the divergence in the hexbear codebase. Initially, federation with these sites were the goal.
They would need autonomy of some kind to accept coming to this platform, they have repeatedly expressed concern about the moderation here
Example: they would need a com where they can shitpost, be sectarian and be rowdy because that is the culture of GZD. This sub cares much more about policing tone and avoiding sectarianism, GZD is more similar to the original CTH sub where rude arguments are allowed and encouraged
boohoo I can't be a dick to people I have minor disagreements with!
Man grow up.
Ok you don’t want GZD here then. They like to shitpost and have struggle sessions and be rowdy. Sounds like you don’t want them here if this is your response so what’s the point of trying to onboard people you will hate?
This is why GZD posters will not come here or will leave shortly after they get banned for posting a pig poop balls to a mod
This is why they have problems with the moderation here, this exact attitude
The attitude of don't be a dick? You might be in the wrong place bud.
You are the one being a dick right now, I merely suggested creating an autonomous region where they can be themselves and you come right out swinging with invective
Do you want to have GZD here or not? Because what you are showing me with your attitude is no.
I honestly don't care, but we're not creating special exclusions from site wide code of conduct for specific subs
Why do you think that is deserved?
It’s not about “deserved” what is with this pseudo-righteous moralist tone?
It’s about whether you want to be pragmatic and have GZD here or not. If you don’t want them here, fine. Just say that. Cut this shit about how you want them here but also won’t tolerate their culture.
Tolerate them or don’t, I don’t care it’s your site. Just letting you know that your plans of merging the sites or whatever will never work unless you hand over some autonomy to them to retain their culture
I mean this place is run by volunteers, it has a culture of left unity. That is core to this place and to make an exception for sectarianism for a specific group undermines that goal.
Ok sounds like you won’t tolerate them here then so stop trying to wring your hands and act like you want them here
It's not like we don't allow dunking on individuals with bad takes.
I literally don't care if they come here or not.
What is it you people even want?
Because half the time you are saying you need to reach out to other leftist communities and onboard them, and the other half you are bitching about how sectarian those communities are and how their cultures are incompatible and they need to change to fit your standards.
You don’t want to grow, you obviously want to forever remain a small clique or else you would be more open to autonomy and accommodations and compromise for different federated subgroups.
It’s fine if you want to forever remain a small clique on here and never grow or onboard anyone, but just admit that to yourselves instead of acting like a big tent when in fact you are one of the most ban happy and culturally-enforced groups on the internet
I have tried to plug this site a couple times to GZD and lemmygrad and every single time there are like ten responses complaining about the mods here. Don’t shoot the messenger. You have created a reputation through your heavy handed actions.
I'm not "shooting" anyone, we're not "suppressing the culture" of a shitposting subreddit full of teenagers. It's a fine place and did fine work but if people want to come here this place isn't going to adapt to their specific needs especially if that need is to stir shit.
There have been plenty of good faith discussions about tendencies and tactics here, we can respect comrades with different views as long as it doesn't veer into shit slinging or reactionary bs.
Having a comm that not only allows but protects sectarianism is counter to what we want to do here.
Eventually we will probably be federated and none of this will matter anyway.
Alright well they will not join this site if this is the attitude. I’m just making pragmatic descriptive statements but you seem to take offense at it and lash out about.
I'm not taking offense lol I'm pretty ambivalent. I don't speak for this whole site and you don't speak for every GZD poster, maybe there is a majority view that's the case but I have yet to even see what specific examples they have issues with, you've said they have issues with the mods being heavy handed but provide no context for what that means.
You immediately attacked me and told me to grow up and had an arrogant, dismissive and belittling tone when my comment was pragmatic and in good faith. This is why you have this reputation
Pragmatism is not making exceptions for people that might alienate other comrades.
What is the sort of content that we have removed or banned or whatever that you are talking about when you say Heavy Handed?
Because the overwhelming majority is wreckers and reactionaries.
Your arrogance and dismissive attitude surely isn’t alienating though? Insulting random commentators immediately.
Look, I’m just the messenger here. I have plugged this site on GZD and ALWAYS get responses complaining about the mods. Take that as you will but it’s a fact that is your reputation among the online left if they have ever heard of this site at all
What is it that they are upset about being removed or banned?
You still have yet to cite anything other than a "reputation"
You're a materialist right? What is that reputation grounded in?
I'm genuinely curious, as a mod I need a total picture of whatever grievances someone has here.
Also you initially cited a desire to be rude, to which I said "grow up" that's not an attack that's advice on being taken seriously.
Secondly you are the one actually hurling insults and calling me arrogant while proclaiming to speak for a massive community that I am certain did not choose you as their spokesperson.
Talk about fucking arrogance.
How could I know what specific instances commenters on other sites are referring to?
GZD also had heavy moderation and banned liberals and wreckers, yet their mods do not have your reputation. Seems they are more tolerant of dissent or more accurate in their targets.
Materialism is when you argue online and have specific examples instead of general sentiment. What is this point even?
Do you see how you are getting increasingly angry at me for voicing criticism? Just ban me already and prove my point.
So you're just going off of hearsay?
lol I'm not mad I'm trying to figure out what is at the heart of your argument.
So far it's just been "other people said so"
Literally dozens of examples of “people said so” starts to add up when those people saying so are the ones you are attempting to recruit.
I don’t have a verified Reddit account to access GZD anymore but if you do, search “chapo.chat” or “hexbear” and you will see what I mean
What did they say? What are the examples?
Surely if it's that prevalent you remember some?
I'm sure I will find plenty of comments saying what you are saying now with no source to back them up.
I did a search and literally found nothing. Maybe that's because of the quarantine but you're gonna have to do more than "some people said so" to make a coherent argument.
Let me reiterate how ironic and funny this is, you're someone who ostensibly takes great skepticism and a critical eye toward news about a designated enemy that you have no primary sources for, (e.g. I don't trust jack shit I hear about DPRK from the west), but now you are confidently making assertions about abuse of power from some commie mods on a site you won't even post sources from.
You don't even need a reddit account if this problem is so prevalent, if moderation is the problem then certainly you should be able to find something in the modlog that proves your point?
It's not like everything we do isn't transparent.
Take a cue from your sub's namesake and do some self-crit
Don't have a dog in this fight, but there are complaints about the moderation (even if you disagree with the reasons given). Use Camas: https://camas.github.io/reddit-search/#{%22subreddit%22:%22genzedong%22,%22resultSize%22:100,%22query%22:%22hexbear%22}
Lol, okay. It's just a frontend for pushshift. Much better than reddit search.
ok still not clicking it, this other guy is being dodgy I'm just trying to find out what exactly the issue is.
So can you give me any examples? any quotes? anything? I'm trying to figure out what mod action it is that they have issue with.
I'm extremely hands off myself in terms of moderation unless it's something explicitly reactionary or harmful
Here you go, grabbed a few examples:
"Describing specifics ends up drowning everything in copious bizarre personal drama between individuals.
My judgment of "Hexbear" is very big picture = bad vibes. You're neither hanging out with close friends nor visiting a public forum. You're forced into a constant struggle session where everyone's a wrecker, everyone's angry at each other, everyone's having a personal crisis because of what someone else said, everyone's getting banned for hurting mods' feelings, etc. Every week is new drama.
I blame the admins/mods for being moody micromanagers - constantly tinkering with everything, but never having a clear idea of what they were trying to do. With my conspiracy hat on - their goal was to kill the Chapo community, invite in leftists and make them feel shitty. Without it - they're the worst online community managers I've ever seen. Some outsiders were definitely stirring shit up on purpose, but the responses were worse than the problems."
"It's an over-moderated echo chamber that doesn't have easy access to adjacent communities of indoctrinable libs like Reddit. The site is bad at promo/marketing, they changed their name from chapo.chat which was PERFECTLY FINE to.. Hexbear?! for what reason I don't know, but that and also some ridiculous modding decisions as well as a bunch of people whining about nonexistent "wreckers" drove me off the site."
"That's only the tip of the iceberg. The discord server went through a lot of drama with many MLs getting punished and eventually banned from the community while the same rules were not being enforced for other tendencies within the community. They have had a history of banning trans people so much that a majority of trans people on the discord at the time splintered off and made their own community separate from chapo, and the hexbear response was to bring on a token trans person as mod who hasn't been active on months. To this day hundreds of trans people are banned from the site if not completely disillusioned with the place. The mod team has taken to calling these people "wreckers".
There have been allegations of stalking, pedophilia, and grooming too. The staff there is tight clique and there are allegations that the server has changed hands a couple of times already. The evidence for these can go either way depending on who you believe but the fact that this controversy exists to this day is indicative of a huge problem and personally I cannot trust anyone who has allegations of grooming (like Beatnik for example).
I also remember there was at one point they were promising mod elections in response to all of the criticism but I don't think that ever happened."
"chapo/hexbear would ban us for our takes on sex-work, not to mention they prohibit "sectarianism" and fuck that.
I also don't believe one second chapo/hexbear will ever be federated, it's a "road-map" that was all but abandoned once they started fucking with the code.
And their mods are overly online assholes.
Lemmygrad ftw"
read my response to the image that I just replied to.
Please go outside
Bruh, I just grabbed some examples from the link I posted using Ctrl-F because you asked for examples. I'm not the one complaining. Haven't even been on Hexbear for more than a couple of days. You're very condescending.
Okay but I'm genuinely trying to figure this out and I've seen no specific examples aside from terfs and swerfs being mad.
And their mods are overly online assholes.
also this is funny coming from a subreddit that wants to preserve its tradition of being extremely online assholes.
Also also the site and the discord have very little overlap anymore, so the most serious allegation there has little to do with this site.
To this day hundreds of trans people are banned from the site if not completely disillusioned with the place. The mod team has taken to calling these people “wreckers”.
again extraordinary claims require evidence.
Are they talking about the fucking Kerry posters? :michael-laugh: Those weirdos haven't been around for a long, long time
Could it be me who is wrong? No it’s all of GZD are just wreckers and reactionaries!
What is their problem? I'm honestly trying to find out. You keep giving troll responses
I didn't say gzd was wreckers and reactionaries I said the majority of things removed by mods are.
Put up or shut up.
You keep dodging this question and making essentially a straw man argument without even constructing the strawman.
So people are mad about measures against swerfs and to protect trans comrades from harassment from the first few I've seen.
:stfu-terf:
And someone complaining about the name change.
Yeah this is fucking pointless.
You kids need to grow up and go out and touch some fucking grass I swear to god.
You will never be introspective will you? It’s literally impossible for you to be wrong.
This is why you have this reputation. You could have proven these users wrong by having a normal conversation with me instead of immediately going for an attack and avoiding all introspection or admission of any fault whatsoever.
Many of these people criticizing you are trans, look at their user names.
Oh, the people who demanded complete control over the old Discord and when that didn’t happen started doxxing people, building Hexbear spambots, and posting inflammatory bullshit on Reddit. Super reliable lol
Most leftist communities don’t have this aura about them. I’m not involved in that drama, but it is true this site has a disproportionate amount of drama compared to say, GZD moderation
when this community I started I believe this was the plan - unsure of where we are at with that now
This pinned post on /c/feedback last month seems to be where we're at.
I prefer multiples. All the eggs in one basket thing. More site means if one goes down we still have the others. And if stuff gets cross posted so be it.
