Quite the unpopular opinion, but I just wanted to post this to show the silent majority that we still exist. We have reached a point where voicing criticism against wayland is treated like the worst thing ever and leads you to being censored and what not. The red hat funded multi year long shill campaign has proven to be quite successful. Now do the same for immutable distros and every new buzzword that restricts your ability to make changes to your system and the long term plan of completely sabotaging the linux desktop will finally come true. That is all.
Don't use any Linux distro that has non-super users, that is a distro that restricts your ability to make changes on your system...
If you want a truly unrestricted OS experience, go daily drive TempleOS.
That actually would be nice, since you wouldn't be able to connect to the internet anymore and we wouldn't have to hear your pissing and moaning.
You seethe and rage against the ocean because it continues to make waves lol.
Apps have to rewrite code for every compositor. This is intentionally shitty design.
it's completely ok to not like or even hate wayland but this ain't it. i don't know if that's true, but even if wayland is so shit that every compositor needs a separate compatibility patch i still don't see how that's restricting your freedom or app developers' freedom or any kind of freedom. if it's so cumbersome to support wayland then devs won't support it and people won't use it. no one is forcing anyone to do anything no one is ruling through software even if apps drop xorg in a free software environment people can pay developers to keep maintaining for xorg.
Last time I checked, free software respecting your freedom was about giving you the ability to redistribute it and do what you wanted with it. It wasn't about guaranteeing compatibility
Did you just create this account just to spew your hatred of Wayland without any explanations as to why? Get a life lmao. You're just a moron with an irrational hatred for change.
>hurr durr let me look at his post history to find material to bitch about
>nothing? heh at least let me point that out for muh updoots
Pathetic
The paid moderators keep deleting my posts just becuase of slighly criticising red hat. What do you want me to do? Expect replies from a deleted post?
What do you want me to do?
I want you to keep the conversation civil and to rely on evidence-based arguments and pathways.
The paid moderators keep deleting my posts
If you find your voice silenced in a community, there are ways to build a community yourself. Freedom of association and freedom of speech dictate that no one is forced to listen though, communication happens best voluntarially. I value the work of moderators and understand the value of its remuneration - paying moderators does not equal silencing, especially on the Fediverse.
Paid moderators? Why do you think they get paid? Who do you think is paying them?
Red hat employees have infiltrated moderation teams of various forums. This has been done on reddit and now the plague has spread here too.
Do you really believe this? Red hat is paying people to shill for them on lemmy? I don't suppose I could trouble you for some evidence of that, could I?
The only thing pathetic here is you. You'd realise that if you weren't such a whiney bitch. If you don't want to use Wayland, just don't use it. No one's shoving it down your throat. But no need to whine like a bitch.
We read you the first time. Please stop recreating accounts to post the same over and over.
Sabotage linux desktop?
It's exactly due to immutability that Linux is reaching even more people. An example is SteamOS, an immutable distro.
Common user doesn't wanna know if he's using X11 or Wayland, or if your distro is immutable or not. He wanna knows if the distro works and if he can do their stuff. And that's the exactly reason why Windows is the best alternative for them.
Not everyone is tech-savy to care about the engines that make an os work or to tweak every aspect of the system. Actually this is minority.
Off course your disapointment and contempt with Wayland and immutable distros is legit. I'm not arguing against it. You have your reasons and respect it. But please, don't jump to conclusions like "it will sabottage linux desktop" with no evidence.
Xorg? Wayland? You have bespoke protocols just for windowed graphics? I'm happy with my /dev/draw and /dev/wsys/*
Unix is a zombie OS that should probably die
I actually agree. Wayland is good on new AMD hardware with high refresh rate triple monitor setups. But on common non-gaming hardware it's just a disadvantage, especially in terms of accessibility (yes I know it's improving now but it's still far from X11). If you're an advanced Linux user, Wayland is a good thing. But if you're a regular person who uses the computer for office work and YouTube, it is not. The problem here is that the most popular distros (Ubuntu, Fedora, RHEL) enable it by default or completely remove X11 support. If you're a gamer and you need Wayland's features, you're most likely advanced enough to use it but there are limitations and bugs that regular users will not want to deal with and/or fix using terminal commands. Wayland is probably the future but it is not the today. Making it the default makes Linux desktop a little bit more of a hacky tool for geeks than it was with X11+optional Wayland support. Oh and good luck using Wayland on NVidia 800 series and older
I'm using Fedora Atomic Budgie right now, and I'm of the viewpoint that I want my system to be my system. That is why I used Arch / Artix for so long.
Eventually however, I tried out Atomic distros in VMs and initially disliked their "restrictive" nature. But after too many random breakages on Arch, I went for it on my desktop as I imagined it'd be good for reliability.
That was about 2 months ago, and the very same install is still going strong on my desktop and now laptop too (which I'm writing this on). That is hands-down the longest a single instance has continued to exist for me. I love it.
I think we need to reconsider everything about the "Linux desktop" we all dream of. Let's say we get 60% of existing Windows users onto our side in the next 5 years. That is a lot of people. Too many people for us to assume they're all willing to embrace the total freedom we advertise. This is where we need to go, we need more standardization across the board. I'm almost at the point where I'd only recommend Atomic distros to new users, as new users are going to be scared off if something spontaneously breaks. New users are also going to be inquisitive, so they may cause breakages.
Wayland is just overall the next step, X.Org is older than me, older than many of us to be honest. If projects are left abandoned due to the complexity of Wayland, oh well? The fraction of the userbase that used those projects are just gonna have to get with the times I'm afraid.
Linux needs to grow-up a bit, Windows is getting more and more enshittified by the week. Sooner or later it's gonna reach a tipping point and people are start dropping off and coming to us. We need to prepare for an influx of "normies" essentially. Because of that, I welcome Atomicity, Wayland and other evil evil oh so terrible things that "corpos" are doing.
